[van-discuss] Re: [van-announce] Announcing the Formation of the Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice

[kymhothead]

my name is kym (icebreaker0 and I work currently with Vancouver Status of
Women (VSW) as well as Anti Poverty Committee (APC) and numerous other
groups, unions, non profits  and individuals across Vancouver and BC who are
currently fighting the cuts...

i have to say that, when i started to read this letter i was excited, i feel
the need for more of us in this struggle to work together.  as i will
continue to do even with this newly formed group.

i have to say though, i was more than disappointed to read the below quote i
took out of the piece and wondered why this group feels the need still to
show APC in a negative light?  do they not know what APC is currently
working their assess on?  policy's to actions meeting after meeting and
discussion after discussion..., i guess not:
"It is not possible for the APC to pay
 heed to its own self-criticisms. The APC had become trapped in its own
 successes, pigeonholed by its activist credibility and the strain of
 living up to its own reputation. The people who left the APC felt that the
 only way to work genuinely with organized and unorganized working and poor
 people in Vancouver was to leave the APC and begin a new organization.
(and what does this next sentence mean?)
We felt bound by the activist community building and isolated individual
 actions that the APC prioritized and is trapped within. We started the
 Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice to fight alongside the people
 and communities most deeply affected by Gordon Campbell;
(placed the way it is here it sheds a negative light on APC as though APC
were not doing this...?)
 to organize with people whose lives are an every day struggle for survival.
We will work to
 expose the politics of those daily struggles and to bring these
 communities together into the streets to fight back
(again, as if APC were not doing that?)."

then later in their article they write:

" The APC not only rejected this program; they refused
 to with us and attacked us personally instead."

here, they were talking about their proposal and the fashion in which they
made it.  since i was asked by APC to facilate as a neutral person, which i
did, and now i hear this and i wonder what i missed?  you see i was there
and have been since!
did this group not abandon the process because THEY wanted the ideas layed
out in THEIR plan to be the only ideas APC chose, to accept it exactly as it
was without time to consider other people proposals and to just ignore their
and accept the out going groups?

(APC is currently having meetings and strategy sessions to deal with ALL of
the individuals as well as "formed groups" proposals which hold some of the
same ideas etc that were in the outgoing groups proposals.
  and why should other peoples proposals not be looked at?

this letter went public so, i had to respond!
i cannot believe i had to read that.  given none of the members of the newly
formed group seemed to have heard the feedback from APC members regarding
their choice of how they left and the style they used and obviously in this
letter, continue to use which i feel is this.

a blaming attacking form of strategy that i expect to see within a
"political right wing (liberal or otherwise) governments strategy's that are
of NO USE
to us within this movement NOW!
 please stop this tactic as your words are not FULLY based in truth!
omitting truth is just as bad as lying in my books.  passions were strong on
both sides is what i recall?
to say you were attacked personally in the way that you do in letter
given one of your key men in the group
attacked me "personally" right after one of the meetings saying something to
the affect that i was "making a mistake in
that i was obviously being influenced by "the other faction" and lost
perspective...".
he apologized after as his "female comrade" had shot him a look...and she
made some great points to which i did respond.
i then informed him i knew as much about him as i did about the others in
this group...

and i have to say, i know i did an excellent job in facilitating the meeting
and trying
to stop such filibustering as two men in the outgoing group tried to do in
the meeting.
i had to ask myself for a second where i was?  in parliament?  goddess
forbid!

it is one thing to cities, we must do this of each other, yet, it means we
must stay and do the work of process!  we MUST do this work with each other
in honest and up front kind of ways, not shenanigans like this! i tire of
this type of so called "strategy".

factional politics has no place in our movement today!
honest feedback and our ability to do the work we need to do is what is
important.
if you want to go and do your own thing because you felt the need to cause
the group you were with were not quite doing what YOU wanted it to do in
exactly the way YOU wanted..., fine, ya gotta do what ya gotta do...
this is how we grow and expand and learn from each other, we do not abandon
we teach each other as we do this work...

to continue to feel driven to formulate yourself out of trashing the group
you left is not productive at all.
 APC is currently working on many fronts and its not like you want to
replace them so, just be yourself and do the work and many will join you.
continue to do it at the expense of trashing another especially since they
are
currently involved in the work they are, in this kind of way in a public
letter, well, it makes me wonder?

here is an example i thot of while reading their letter:
APC struggled with sexism before "fire this time" left and, from what i
understand, some
of the men in the outgoing group leaving APC were challenged many times by
their sexism?  that many women suffered sexism at the hands of some of the
men in fire this time (not to mention some men who are still a part of APC
who
will continue to grow and learn as they are confronted on their sexism as
well as
racism and all the ret we deal with in our society...
 we all must give feedback to each other, this is important especially in a
movement.  this is
how we learn and grow.

also, does the outgoing group know how APC is working on a lot of the items
within their proposal, which APC members had agreed with a lot of the
content in the document, especially given the fact that a lot of the APC
members who stayed helped to formulate the "concepts".
did you ever give thanks to those individuals or credit for the work others
also did on a lot of that proposal who stayed?
not in a letter to the public that i am aware of?

i have to ask these questions in this public arena as this outgoing group
has placed it here and now must hear the response...
coalition building does not look like the above statement!
it is one thing to give feedback, that is not feedback!

anyone can correct me if i am wrong...

i just think it would have been more beneficial to just say what you are
doing and stop explaining yourself about why you  left.

you wanted to do similar work in another way, tweaked to your vision, there
is room for all..., so just do it.
we need APC and what IT does.  there will always be a place for APC.  APC is
able, it seems from my mere little new insider perspective anyways, to want
to learn and grow and change..
your tactic in this letter does not build trust.

in the spirit of trust and, in the spirit of still wanting to work with you
as, like i said, you had me with the first part of the letter...
you lost me in the above statements. (as well as other statements in the
document i feel i do not have to mention as i feel i have spoken to them
all)
being who i am , i am happy to continue to work with you folks in the way i
have been and look forward to the work you can bring to the communities as
we work together to change this government and to empower the people!
as you yourself said:
 " Fire This  Time is committed to creating and being part of a movement to
defeat the
 Liberal Government and build a foundation for the long struggle ahead for
 the rights and dignity of all poor and working people in the province and
 around the world. We are inviting all people who share our vision of a
 broad based mass movement against the Liberals to come to our first public
 meeting..."

which means you will also end up working alongside APC?  or the folks who
have been mobilizing around the disability community and all the new
activists we have since our mass movement begun and is "in progress"...
mobilization will continue...at the Anti Poverty Conference in Victoria end
of this month, at the many actions organized like the important health one
on the 28th, the hospital one coming up this week...in fibromyalgia head and
am unable to name at the top of my head re: dates and names etc not have the
capacity, i am sure you are up on it on this amassing list serve!
"a people united will never be defeated, a people united will never be
defeated"?
see you at the 17th and 18th actions starting at the public library in
response to the possible attack on Iraq...
in solidarity and in the spirit of feedback, i am also open to it!

icebreaker

below is the letter in whole  .

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 *PLEASE DISTRIBUTE WIDELY*
 *SORRY FOR ANY CROSS-POSTINGS8*

 Announcing the Formation of the

 Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice

 Fire This Time is a politically based action organization committed to
 building the social and political power of poor and working people in BC.
 We believe that the only way to effectively challenge and threaten the
 Government and their corporate agenda is through the organization of
 masses of people in motion in workplaces and in the streets. We are
 dedicated to mobilizing and unifying a broad range of poor and working
 people against the Liberal Government and their anti-poor, anti-working
 people legislations and policies.

 We must work together with a wide range of people and organizations to
 build a movement for social justice. We undertake popular education
 through forums, classes and other sorts of gatherings to educate ourselves
 and the communities around Vancouver about the issues we are all faced
 with. Poor people, working people and people of colour all engage in
 struggle for survival on a daily basis. These many struggles are all part
 of one unified political struggle. Poor and working people understand
 these politics, our responsibility as organizers is to break down the
 barriers that have been constructed between us by centuries of governance
 by parties like the Liberals, by colonialism and by the many oppressions
 that push poor and working people apart. We are committed to organizing
 with working and poor people from the most attacked and exploited
 communities in the lower mainland: communities of colour, immigrants,
 refugees, "illegals", low-wage workers, disabled people, queer people,
 indigenous communities, unemployed people, and low-income families in the
 outlying districts of Vancouver. The Fire This Time Movement for Social
 Justice will defend ourselves and our communities against Government and
 Business attacks by any means necessary.

 Fire This Time formed out of the political split in the Anti-Poverty
 Committee in December of 2002. The members of Fire This Time resigned from
 the Anti-Poverty Committee to build a serious disciplined organization to
 work with the diverse communities of poor and working people in Vancouver
 and throughout British Columbia. It is not possible for the APC to pay
 heed to its own self-criticisms. The APC had become trapped in its own
 successes, pigeonholed by its activist credibility and the strain of
 living up to its own reputation. The people who left the APC felt that the
 only way to work genuinely with organized and unorganised working and poor
 people in Vancouver was to leave the APC and begin a new organization. We
 felt bound by the activist community building and isolated individual
 actions that the APC prioritised and is trapped within. We started the
 Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice to fight alongside the people
 and communities most deeply affected by Gordon Campbell; to organize with
 people whose lives are an every day struggle for survival. We will work to
 expose the politics of those daily struggles and to bring these
 communities together into the streets to fight back.

 Four Fire This Time members were elected to the steering committee of the
 APC and then resigned three days after the election with the understanding
 that the APC was not capable of undertaking the work it had set before
 itself. Those four resigned steering committee members and three APC
 general members formed the APC Members for Restructuring and Reorganizing
 and put an Action Program before the APC with the concrete necessities for
 the changes needed in the group vital to the viable struggle against the
 Liberal Government. The APC not only rejected this program; they refused
 to with us and attacked us personally instead. These actions taken against
 the group finalized our conclusion that the ultimately undemocratic
 character of APC made it impossible to change the organization. Despite
 our willingness to support the APC in the future we believe that they are
 not currently capable of undertaking a serious struggle against this
 government. Eight people (Mike Krebs, Shannon Bundock, Marwan Marwan,
 Nasim Sedaghat, Ivan Drury, Ali Yerevani, Vero Methot, and Laura
 Cartwright) resigned from the general membership of the APC on Tuesday
 December 17th to form the Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice.

 The Liberal Government has already been in power for a year and a half and
 no effective, unifying force has taken shape to oppose Campbell. Fire This
 Time is committed to creating and being part of a movement to defeat the
 Liberal Government and build a foundation for the long struggle ahead for
 the rights and dignity of all poor and working people in the province and
 around the world. We are inviting all people who share our vision of a
 broad based mass movement against the Liberals to come to our first public
 meeting on Monday January 27th at 6 PM at the IWA Hall in Vancouver (2859
 Commercial Drive, at Commercial and 13th). For more information please
 check out our website at http://www.fire-this-time.org.

 We Will Win

 The Fire This Time Movement for Social Justice

 http://www.fire-this-time.org
 Email:info at fire-this-time.org
 Phone: 604-322-1764
 Mail: PO Box 21607
      Vancouver BC
       V5N 3T5



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