[Smashpatriarchy] Message from Allison

[rory breasail]

I'll be there for sure.


On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 9:58 PM, reg johanson <regjohanson at gmail.com> wrote:

> i can make that.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Peter Gill <petergill85 at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> I agree that it would be really useful to meet and discuss both this
>> message and what went down at the book fair, as well as how that impacts
>> the way we should organize/ change the way we organize.
>>
>> I suggest we meet next Tuesday at 7:30.
>>
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Carven Li <carven.li at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Peter,
>>>
>>> Thanks for sharing the message. I am new to the group, everyone.
>>> I want to thank SAP for including me as a new member and for leading the
>>> Book Club.
>>>
>>> Allyship groups have always faced this criticism and I would love to
>>> meet with members to discuss this email in-depth. My initial thought is
>>> that all SAP meetings should be intentionally co-facilitated by people who
>>> self-identify as not having male privilege. Voices of allyship should not
>>> be more centered than voices of those who do not have the privilege in
>>> question; they are both important and very effective when seen in dynamic.
>>>
>>> The self-identified woman or women should be rotated, if possible, to
>>> reflect the diversity of people who do not have male privilege.
>>>
>>> Looking forward to discussions!
>>>
>>> Carven
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Peter Gill <petergill85 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> I’m gonna start this with a caveat, cause there are folks in Solidarity
>>>> Against Patriarchy<https://www.facebook.com/SolidarityAgainstPatriarchy?ref=hl&directed_target_id=0> i’ve
>>>> got a lot of respect for, and i believe the group’s intentions come from a
>>>> well-meaning place. As well, in relation to the whole MRA ordeal last
>>>> summer, the formation of a feminist-allied group of (mostly) men did seem
>>>> to make sense, and i still appreciate the “Don’t be a creep!” poster
>>>> campaign y’alldid.
>>>>
>>>> However, despite my initial support, a year later I’ve come to see SAP
>>>> as problematic, if not outright patriarchal. I’m realizing that “men
>>>> educating men” reinforces the idea that men are authority figures - even in
>>>> the realm of women’s lib. I can now see how this kind of (public)
>>>> organizing cedes more space to men, making their experiences, interests &
>>>> concerns the focal point of women’s struggles against male-centric
>>>> environments. I am concerned that SAP may be a kind of “safe space” for
>>>> participants to avoid having their privileges challenged, and opinions
>>>> deprioritized by women. Seeing that solidarity is never a given, I also
>>>> worry that this kind of organizing enables men to claim “feminist cred”
>>>> while still going about their daily lives treating women as their
>>>> inferiors, never learning to listen to their experiences. (Albeit, I will
>>>> admit, this is not a problem limited to this kind of organizing; there are
>>>> plenty of doods who organize -with- women and still act like know-it-all
>>>> shits)
>>>>
>>>> I’m not saying this because I want y’all to go out & find some women to
>>>> tokenize & take orders from (myself included in that). I’m saying this
>>>> because I was openly in support of the group when it first began, despite
>>>> many women’s concerns, and now feel it’s my responsibility to publicly
>>>> clarify that I am no longer in favor of this kind of organizing. I think
>>>> it’s been an interesting journey, and there are certainly some lovely
>>>> things that have come out of SAP. For me though, the problems are
>>>> outweighing the positives, and I can no longer give a thumbs-up on publicly
>>>> organizing as "mostly" men around feminism.
>>>>
>>>> I realize what I’m saying may hurt feelings here, cause y’all have been
>>>> invested in this project for some time now, taking risks, experimenting &
>>>> all, but y’know – a year ago I was asked what I thought about men
>>>> organizing like this, and although my opinion hasn’t been solicited...
>>>> well, here it is! **
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Smashpatriarchy mailing list
>>>> Smashpatriarchy at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smashpatriarchy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Smashpatriarchy mailing list
>> Smashpatriarchy at lists.resist.ca
>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smashpatriarchy
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Smashpatriarchy mailing list
> Smashpatriarchy at lists.resist.ca
> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smashpatriarchy
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.resist.ca/pipermail/smashpatriarchy/attachments/20130921/6a0ae3b4/attachment-0001.html>