[Smashpatriarchy] Message from Allison

[reg johanson]

i can make that.


On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:52 AM, Peter Gill <petergill85 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I agree that it would be really useful to meet and discuss both this
> message and what went down at the book fair, as well as how that impacts
> the way we should organize/ change the way we organize.
>
> I suggest we meet next Tuesday at 7:30.
>
> Peter
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:48 AM, Carven Li <carven.li at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hey Peter,
>>
>> Thanks for sharing the message. I am new to the group, everyone.
>> I want to thank SAP for including me as a new member and for leading the
>> Book Club.
>>
>> Allyship groups have always faced this criticism and I would love to meet
>> with members to discuss this email in-depth. My initial thought is that all
>> SAP meetings should be intentionally co-facilitated by people who
>> self-identify as not having male privilege. Voices of allyship should not
>> be more centered than voices of those who do not have the privilege in
>> question; they are both important and very effective when seen in dynamic.
>>
>> The self-identified woman or women should be rotated, if possible, to
>> reflect the diversity of people who do not have male privilege.
>>
>> Looking forward to discussions!
>>
>> Carven
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 20, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Peter Gill <petergill85 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> I’m gonna start this with a caveat, cause there are folks in Solidarity
>>> Against Patriarchy<https://www.facebook.com/SolidarityAgainstPatriarchy?ref=hl&directed_target_id=0> i’ve
>>> got a lot of respect for, and i believe the group’s intentions come from a
>>> well-meaning place. As well, in relation to the whole MRA ordeal last
>>> summer, the formation of a feminist-allied group of (mostly) men did seem
>>> to make sense, and i still appreciate the “Don’t be a creep!” poster
>>> campaign y’alldid.
>>>
>>> However, despite my initial support, a year later I’ve come to see SAP
>>> as problematic, if not outright patriarchal. I’m realizing that “men
>>> educating men” reinforces the idea that men are authority figures - even in
>>> the realm of women’s lib. I can now see how this kind of (public)
>>> organizing cedes more space to men, making their experiences, interests &
>>> concerns the focal point of women’s struggles against male-centric
>>> environments. I am concerned that SAP may be a kind of “safe space” for
>>> participants to avoid having their privileges challenged, and opinions
>>> deprioritized by women. Seeing that solidarity is never a given, I also
>>> worry that this kind of organizing enables men to claim “feminist cred”
>>> while still going about their daily lives treating women as their
>>> inferiors, never learning to listen to their experiences. (Albeit, I will
>>> admit, this is not a problem limited to this kind of organizing; there are
>>> plenty of doods who organize -with- women and still act like know-it-all
>>> shits)
>>>
>>> I’m not saying this because I want y’all to go out & find some women to
>>> tokenize & take orders from (myself included in that). I’m saying this
>>> because I was openly in support of the group when it first began, despite
>>> many women’s concerns, and now feel it’s my responsibility to publicly
>>> clarify that I am no longer in favor of this kind of organizing. I think
>>> it’s been an interesting journey, and there are certainly some lovely
>>> things that have come out of SAP. For me though, the problems are
>>> outweighing the positives, and I can no longer give a thumbs-up on publicly
>>> organizing as "mostly" men around feminism.
>>>
>>> I realize what I’m saying may hurt feelings here, cause y’all have been
>>> invested in this project for some time now, taking risks, experimenting &
>>> all, but y’know – a year ago I was asked what I thought about men
>>> organizing like this, and although my opinion hasn’t been solicited...
>>> well, here it is! **
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Smashpatriarchy mailing list
>>> Smashpatriarchy at lists.resist.ca
>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/smashpatriarchy
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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