[IPSM] Once a Black robe, Always a Black Robe

Fri Mar 7 22:29:20 PST 2008

OK, so when and how is Kevin going to to admit to his transgressions? I know
that's the only part of this that is engaging for me at this moment.

Although there has been no court - either "white man's" or "First Nations"
that has heard the accusations.

Maybe all who are surviving or their kin should come forward with these
accusations. In my court, that's how I do it ;)

DB

On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Douglas Jack <douglas.jack at mail.mcgill.ca>
wrote:

>  Whoa Douglas B!
>
> No conversation or dialogue begins with forced "admission to
> transgressions"!  I hope you don't believe in forced confessions *before*any recorded dialogue or at the same time take
> *any* right to public condemnation.  Every occurance and word spoken in
> our lives is contextual, so that dialectics (recorded dialogue) offers an
> opportunity for individuals to pose their memory, logics and perspectives
> side by side with opposing memory, logics and perspectives.  However if in
> the course of the Equal Time Recorded Dialogue, Macdonald, Kevin or anyone
> else is able to present evidence or witness of transgressions, and the other
> side is able or unable to satisfactorily answer, then this will become
> obvious to the reader.  It is valuable to work in teams on complex issues.
> In the larger scheme of things the ability to collaborate with friends and
> enemies is more important than the ability to condemn because sustainable
> life and livelihood are the ultimate questions for all of us.
>
> If you are familiar with the First Nation inclusive processes of:
> adoption, the nature of the Production Society, String Shell economics, even
> and sometimes especially among those who had killed then you might
> understand that "We are as wealthy as our welcome".  This is the nature of
> the First Nation heritage we are concerned with honouring,
>
> Douglas Jack
>
> ----- Original Message ----- *From:* Douglas Brown <whemedia at gmail.com> *
> To:* Douglas Jack <douglas.jack at mail.mcgill.ca> *Cc:*
> ipsm-l at lists.resist.ca ; Macdonald Stainsby <mstainsby at resist.ca> ;
> dbain at telus.net *Sent:* Friday, March 07, 2008 3:43 PM  *Subject:* Re:
> [IPSM] Once a Black robe, Always a Black Robe
>
> Although I laud your attempts to try to reconcile the issue with Kevin A.,
> I do feel that you are truly unaware of the damage that Kevin has done. As I
> mentioned earlier, Kevin does need to admit to his transgressions, which are
> very real. If he is not prepared to admit that he has done nothing wrong
> then we are really just debating how many angels fit on the head of a pin.
>
> So, show us that you are a mediator and get Kevin to confess and then we
> have a place from where we can move forward, otherwise, we all remain in
> hell.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Doug B
>
> On Fri, Mar 7, 2008 at 12:03 PM, Douglas Jack <douglas.jack at mail.mcgill.ca>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Macdonald,
> >
> > Your accusations are still serious.  I don't base my understandings on
> > accusations from one side, but only upon the interplay of both sides.
> >  When
> > I hear constant denunciations over years and yet no offer to meet your
> > perceived opponent or to provide a 'fair' hearing process (of any sort)
> > and
> > only calls for "marginalisation", then I assume that something is
> > seriously
> > wrong with the accuser.  I lived in BC for eleven years (69 - 80) and
> > decided to come back to family roots in the east.  If you read my email,
> > you
> > will note that I've been involved for 40 years as well that I don't
> > propose
> > a process that I will 'mediate' but that you and Kevin can mediate
> > yourselves.  Considering the level of your vitriole, I suggest finding
> > someone neutral and responsible to manage the taping of a record so that
> > it
> > is available for all concerned.
> >
> > If we are going to sling mud at each other then at least we can plant a
> > garden in the process,
> >
> > Douglas Jack, eco-montreal at mcgill.ca
> >
> > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Macdonald Stainsby"
> > <mstainsby at resist.ca>To: <ipsm-l at lists.resist.ca>Cc:
> > <info at dbandassociates.ca>; <dbain at telus.net>Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008
> > 12:56 PM
> >  Subject: Re: [IPSM] Once a Black robe, Always a Black Robe
> > >
> > > Dialog with someone who tries to get people killed is not possible,
> > > spending time ignoring the wishes of the people (I'm from BC where
> > this
> > > garbage spewing saviour man began stealing testimonies) who have
> > suffered
> > > the real abuses of the Res schools in favour of "dialog" is the
> > ultimate
> > > insult; talking to this kind of scam artist who believes that
> > indigenous
> > > deaths are the ticket to personal fame is more than the simplest of
> > > perpetuation of the very same attitude, and doing anything other than
> > > working hard to marginalize and expose his abuses of the very real
> > people
> > > he has ripped off before calling about a dozen good people various
> > forms
> > > of police agents is a dereliction of duty for any settler who wishes
> > to
> > > understand the issue beyond signing a fucking petition.
> > >
> > > The testimonies in the film he put together were never given
> > permission to
> > > be used. He uses them anyway, because he is a self-promoting useless
> > > modern day Indian Agent.
> > >
> > > Consider this my rejection of your offer to "mediate". If you actually
> > > want to know the truth about this man, I challenge you to come WEst
> > where
> > > we can meet the various people he has screwed over. But don't tape the
> > > conversations with these people and expect to get rich and notorious
> > off
> > > the discussions. That shit has been done already.
> > >
> > > Macdonald
> > >
> > > Douglas Jack wrote:
> > >> Hi Macdonald Stainsby, Douglas Brown and others,
> > >>
> > >> I have received this email from first Macdonald and then from Douglas
> > > Brown.
> > >>
> > >> As you are aware, there are many divisions among people and as many
> > > perspectives on trying to get a grip on what has happened in the past,
> > > how to support each other with livelihood for the present and how to
> > > manifest sustainable 'indigenous' (derived from the Latin meaning,
> > > 'self-generating') communities.  We are all originally indigenous
> > > peoples from around the world.  Our task is to find our way back to
> > this
> > > long truth that is the sustenance of human kind.
> > >>
> > >> I have proposed to Macdonald before and I propose it again here, "if
> > you
> > > have complaints against anyone, then use the tradition of the circle
> > of
> > > the people and open debate debate withing this circle.  I have offered
> > a
> > > venue to Kevin Annett of Both Sides Now, Equal Time Recorded Dialogue,
> > > under which a time period (eg 90 minutes) is chozen, stop watches are
> > > given to Kevin and to Macdonald, each having 45 minutes to speak
> > freely
> > > their concerns recorded on an audio machine perhaps with video and a
> > > record made, perhaps transcribed and then circulated to those who
> > might
> > > be interested in this issue and the differences or similarities
> > > presented.  The time limit can vary according to Macdonald and Kevin's
> > > agreement.  If Macdonald would like to be represented by one of those
> > he
> > > purports to be speaking for then this is welcome Kevin has agreed to
> > > dialogue, but Macdonald has not responded to this offer or made an
> > offer
> > > of his own for another method of dialogue."
> > >>
> > >> Given the serious nature of Macdonald's complaint against Kevin, I
> > have
> > > yet to hear him offer a method of giving fair hearing to the issues
> > > raised.  Given Douglas Brown's reassertion of this complaint, I assume
> > > that he will play as well a role in making sure that such an open fair
> > > dialogue happens.   If Macdonald (or others) continues to make
> > damaging
> > > complaints without offering his perceived opponent a fair dialogue,
> > then
> > > one must conclude that Macdonald is not interested in the indigenous
> > way
> > > and the justice it offers and demands for all.  If anyone else has a
> > > method of conflict resolution (responsabilization) that they would
> > would
> > > like to put forth for this or other issues, then it is most welcome.
> > >>
> > >> If we are going to sling mud at each other then at least we can plant
> > a
> > > garden in the process,
> > >>
> > >> Douglas Jack, eco-montreal at mcgill.ca 514-364-0599, LaSalle-Montreal,
> > > Project Coordinator for the Sustainable Development Corporation.
> > >>
> > >>   ----- Original Message ----- From: Douglas Brown To: Macdonald
> > Stainsby
> > >>   Cc: indigenousyouth at lists.resist.ca ; Radical anti-capitalist
> > > environmental discussion. ; fgn at friendsofgrassynarrows.com ;
> > > Redbadbear at yahoogroups.com ; dbain at telus.net ; ipsm-l at lists.resist.ca
> > >>   Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:02 AM  Subject: Re: [IPSM] Once a
> > > Black robe, Always a Black Robe
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>   Just for your interest, you might want to send your comments
> > directly
> > > to the New York International Independent Film and Video Festival
> > > (NYIIFVF)
> > > http://www.nyfilmvideo.com/2007/ny-july/awards/ny-july-2007-awards.htm
> > >>
> > >>   and to the film's director:
> > >>   Louie Lawless: ph: 250-733-2414 email: louie0 at telus. net
> > >>
> > >>   All the best,
> > >>
> > >>   DB
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>   On Thu, Feb 14, 2008 at 12:34 PM, Macdonald Stainsby
> > > <mstainsby at resist.ca> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>     The St'at'imc Runner, February 2008 issue
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Macdonald Stainsby
> > > Co-ordinator,
> > > http://oilsandstruth.org
> > > --
> > > moderated radical discussion list:
> > > http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/rad-green
> > > --
> > > In the contradiction lies the hope.
> > > -Bertholt Brecht.
> >  > _______________________________________________
> > > IPSM-l mailing list
> > > IPSM-l at lists.resist.ca
> > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ipsm-l
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dog-Gone Democracy
> http://whemedia.blogspot.com/
> 604.719.6297 office cell
>
>

-- 
Dog-Gone Democracy
http://whemedia.blogspot.com/
604.719.6297 office cell
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