[GSA Council] Two thirds majority "of members present"

[Isabelle Johnston]

Hi Gretchen,

I agree that a re-vote would be appropriate in this case.

Isabelle

"The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of
tyranny is in keeping them ignorant."

Maximilien Robespierre

On 19 December 2014 at 14:13, Jon Summers <jsummers6 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Gretchen and Keroles,
>
> I was confused by this, too. I think a re-vote on this issue at the next
> Council meeting might be appropriate.
>
> Jon
>
> On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 10:18 AM, Keroles Riad <k_riad at encs.concordia.ca>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I think the bylaws refer to the general assembly. Anyways, even if I
>> concede that the text says that it is all members present at council. I
>> don't think that this was clear during voting that abstention is an
>> effective no vote (obviously wasn't clear to me and I doubt it was clear to
>> everyone else), so what I propose is to re do the vote next council after
>> you clearly state that abstentions are practically no votes.
>>
>> Does that sound reasonable?
>> Kero
>> Thanks
>> Keroles Riad
>> Research assistant and INDI masters student
>> B.Eng Mechanical Engineering
>> Laboratory for the Physics of Advanced Materials
>> Department of Mechanical & Industrial Engineering
>> Concordia University
>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West
>> Montreal, Quebec
>> Canada H3G 1M8
>> Ph: 1-514-476-3686
>>
>> Follow me
>> @Kerologist
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: * gretchen k <gbayou at gmail.com>
>> *Date: *Fri, 19 Dec 2014 10:10:16 -0500
>> *To: *Keroles Riad<k_riad at encs.concordia.ca>
>> *Cc: *Gsaconcordia at lists.resist.ca<Gsaconcordia at lists.resist.ca>
>> *Subject: *Re: Two thirds majority "of members present"
>>
>> hey keroles and Councillors--
>>
>> thanks for the link keroles.
>>
>> as for the GSA bylaws, the quote i inserted in the subject is impt to
>> recall, see *21.3* on amending the bylaws: "Any Motion to amend the
>> Bylaws must be adopted by a two third (2/3) majority of the members
>> present at the Assembly. Any amendment to the Bylaws shall take effect
>> once adopted by the General Assembly of members."
>>
>> so at council and the GA, when amending the bylaws the tally of the vote
>> is *of the members present*. last night's vote re 6.1 that resulted in 4
>> - for, 2 - opposed, and 4 - abstaining did not receive a two-thirds vote
>> and thus did not pass.
>>
>> the section you forwarded also states this, but in a confusing way. i
>> think the GSA bylaws state clearly that to adopt the motion you need a vote
>> of the members present. voting to abstain in this case does count towards
>> the tally of two-thirds, but is recorded as an abstention.
>>
>> hope this helps.
>>
>> --gretchen
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 19, 2014 at 1:37 AM, Keroles Riad <k_riad at encs.concordia.ca>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> In Question 6 on the official Roberts rules site (
>>> http://www.robertsrules.com/faq.html):
>>>
>>> *Question 6:*
>>> *Do abstention votes count?*
>>> *Answer:*
>>> The phrase "abstention votes" is an oxymoron, an abstention being a
>>> refusal to vote. To abstain means to refrain from voting, and, as a
>>> consequence, there can be no such thing as an "abstention vote."
>>> In the usual situation, *where either a majority vote or a two-thirds
>>> vote is required, abstentions have absolutely no effect on the outcome of
>>> the vote since what is required is either a majority or two thirds of the
>>> votes cast.* On the other hand, if the vote required is a majority or
>>> two thirds of the members *present*, or a majority or two thirds of the
>>> entire membership, an abstention will have the same effect as a "no" vote.
>>> Even in such a case, however, an abstention is not a vote and is not
>>> counted as a vote. [RONR (11th ed.), p. 400, ll. 7-12; p. 401, ll.
>>> 8-11; p. 403, ll. 13-24; see also p. 66 of RONRIB.]
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>> Keroles Riad
>>> Research assistant and INDI masters student
>>> B.Eng Mechanical Engineering
>>> Laboratory for the Physics of Advanced Materials
>>> Department of Mechanical & Industrial Engineering
>>> Concordia University
>>> 1455 de Maisonneuve Blvd. West
>>> Montreal, Quebec
>>> Canada H3G 1M8
>>> Ph: 1-514-476-3686
>>>
>>> Follow me
>>> @Kerologist
>>> Call
>>> Send SMS
>>> Add to Skype
>>> You'll need Skype CreditFree via Skype
>>>
>>
>>
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