From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Tue Jul 3 20:48:37 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (ifny) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:48:37 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] WOo WOo FG Events: Global Habitat Fest; Monthly Meeting; improv comedy night; Nature Matters Summerfest Message-ID: <1183520917.9543.209.camel@abulafia> Here are Free Geek's upcoming events for early July (details below) Sat July 7 ++ Global Habitat Festival ++ Throughout the day - Robson Square (across from Vanc. Art Gallery) **Volunteers needed!** Tues July 10 ++ Free Geek Monthly Meeting at the Geek ++ 6:30pm-8pm - 117 East 2nd Ave (between Main & Quebec) Wed July 11 ++ FG Celebrity Judge at Tops and Bottoms Improv Show (Comedy Night) ++ 8:00pm - 1216 Bute St. Sat July 14 ++ Nature Matters Summerfest ++ 11-3:00pm Bear Creek Park, Surrey 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 +++ Global Habitat Festival +++ Sat July 7 - all day - Robson Square **If you can volunteer to help, please contact Ifny at ifny at freegeekvancouver.org or 604-690-7372 ** :D Free Geek will have a Geek Booth at the Festival in Robson Square (across Robson St. from the Vancouver Art Gallery). http://www.globalhabitatfestival.com/index.html In exchange for a deeply discounted booth, they've asked us to help them with some volunteers. (Like us, they are largely volunteer-run). So, we need to get 10 volunteers together, who can each do a 5 hour shift helping with the festival. Festival volunteering is scheduled between 7:30 am and midnight (your choice); duties will be things like setting up, recycling squad, helping at the green room or at the performers' stage, or other stuff. Please email me asap if you can help ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (include your phone # if you don't mind). We'll also need to run a Geek Booth between 12pm-9pm. I'll be there the whole time; I'll leave the Geek around 11 and head to Robson Square. I'll need a few people who can help; David can join us around 6:30 so we'll only need one person in the evening. 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 ++ Free Geek Monthly Meeting at the Geek ++ Tues July 10 6:30pm-8pm - 117 East 2nd Ave (between Main & Quebec) Map at http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/directions **Please note: all future monthly meetings will be held the 2nd Tuesday of each month at 6:30pm** Join us as we continue developing a community non-profit dedicated to computer recycling, education, empowerment and free/open source philosophies. Open to the curious, the beginner and the programmer. Folks with no computer experience welcome! more info: http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/node/76 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 ++ Tops and Bottoms Improv Show (Comedy Night) ++ Wed July 11 8:00pm - Jupiter Lounge - 1216 Bute St. (no minors, sorry) Free Geek will be a Celebrity Judge at Tops & Bottoms improv comedy night. Come cheer, laugh, heckle affectionately. Tix are $8 and part of the proceeds will go to the Geek Rent Fund! More info: http://www.bobloblawqct.ca/future.html 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 ++ Nature Matters Summerfest ++ Sat July 14, free, all ages 11:00am-3:00pm Bear Creek Park, Surrey (King George Hwy. & 88th Ave) Come & say hi at our Geek Booth! More info: http://www.surrey.ca/Living+in +Surrey/Environment/Events/Nature+Matters+SummerFest.htm 1010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Fri Jul 6 16:39:35 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (ifny) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 16:39:35 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Education Workgroup meeting! This Sunday July 8 4:30-6pm Message-ID: <1183765175.32684.165.camel@abulafia> Hey all, Just to let everyone know, we got our insurance, so we'll be starting the Adoption Program next week. The Education Workgroup needs to meet, so that we can coordinate/facilitate the edu-ma-ca-tion of Vancouver! Short notice, but if you are free this Sunday, come to das Geek. The Education Workgroup focuses on developing curriculum and teaching skills. Everyone is welcome to sign up for the Education mailing list at http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/node/26 It would be really great to see everyone who's interested in discussing skill-sharing, usability, fun & general geekifying of folks who come through our doors. If you have experience teaching, or want to discuss ideas about how to make the process clearer & more friendly, please come. 4:30pm-6:00ish Sunday July 8th Free Geek Community Technology Centre 117 East 2nd (between Main & Quebec) Bike parking/wheelchair entrance from the lane between 1st & 2nd Ave. More info: 604-879-4335 or ifny at freegeekvancouver.org From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 16 17:17:19 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:17:19 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] ATTENTION - Important Meeting Tuesday July 17 7pm Message-ID: <1184631440.16431.16.camel@freegeek1> Hello Folks, Sorry for the short notice, but I have to call a meeting regarding the Recycling Council of British Columbia's (RCBC) first draft of their ReUse qualification program that hit my inbox. The RCBC documents can be viewed online[1]. There are some key points that should concern us. Here is a loose agenda - 1. A quick overview of the documents[1](please try to read them before coming). 2. Discuss the hardware lifespan criteria. 3. Discuss agreement to "recycling through the approved provincially mandated e-waste stewardship program." for our ewaste. 4. Come up with some viable alternatives like - transparency, Linux etc. This meeting will start at 7pm at Free Geek on Tuesday July 17. Thanks! [1] http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/RCBC_proposed_% 22BC_Computer_Reuse_Standard%22 From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 16 17:38:48 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:38:48 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] ATTENTION - Important Meeting Tuesday July 17 7pm In-Reply-To: <1184631440.16431.16.camel@freegeek1> References: <1184631440.16431.16.camel@freegeek1> Message-ID: <469C0F98.1060201@freegeekvancouver.org> Free Geek input into this document has been asked for, and that is why this meeting is so important. One of the program's main objectives is to establish a form of quality control amongst reuse organisations; standards are of course very much overdue. It is also important that we consider how Free Geek can best influence certain standards that may not be as stringent as ours. Please come if you can. If people have trouble opening the link, cut & paste both lines, instead of clicking. ~Ifny David Repa wrote: > Hello Folks, > > Sorry for the short notice, but I have to call a meeting regarding the > Recycling Council of British Columbia's (RCBC) first draft of their > ReUse qualification program that hit my inbox. The RCBC documents can be > viewed online[1]. > > There are some key points that should concern us. > > Here is a loose agenda - > > 1. A quick overview of the documents[1](please try to read them before > coming). > > 2. Discuss the hardware lifespan criteria. > > 3. Discuss agreement to "recycling through the approved provincially > mandated e-waste stewardship program." for our ewaste. > > 4. Come up with some viable alternatives like - transparency, Linux etc. > > This meeting will start at 7pm at Free Geek on Tuesday July 17. > > Thanks! > > [1] http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/RCBC_proposed_% > 22BC_Computer_Reuse_Standard%22 > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 16 17:50:26 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 17:50:26 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] ATTENTION - Important Meeting Tuesday July 17 7pm In-Reply-To: <469C0F98.1060201@freegeekvancouver.org> References: <1184631440.16431.16.camel@freegeek1> <469C0F98.1060201@freegeekvancouver.org> Message-ID: <469C1252.3040000@freegeekvancouver.org> Btw, thanks to David for calling this meeting & sharing this info with the rest of us. & thanks to the Software group for being so dang patient. And thanks to the sunshine for being so lavish! Free Geek has so many houses to rock! Get out the guitars! ~Ifny P.S. For the people coming by for the orientation at 6:15, that's still on as scheduled. Ifny wrote: > Free Geek input into this document has been asked for, and that is why > this meeting is so important. > > One of the program's main objectives is to establish a form of quality > control amongst reuse organisations; standards are of course very much > overdue. > > It is also important that we consider how Free Geek can best influence > certain standards that may not be as stringent as ours. > > Please come if you can. > > If people have trouble opening the link, cut & paste both lines, instead > of clicking. > > ~Ifny > > > > > David Repa wrote: >> Hello Folks, >> >> Sorry for the short notice, but I have to call a meeting regarding the >> Recycling Council of British Columbia's (RCBC) first draft of their >> ReUse qualification program that hit my inbox. The RCBC documents can be >> viewed online[1]. >> >> There are some key points that should concern us. >> Here is a loose agenda - >> >> 1. A quick overview of the documents[1](please try to read them before >> coming). >> >> 2. Discuss the hardware lifespan criteria. >> >> 3. Discuss agreement to "recycling through the approved provincially >> mandated e-waste stewardship program." for our ewaste. >> >> 4. Come up with some viable alternatives like - transparency, Linux etc. >> >> This meeting will start at 7pm at Free Geek on Tuesday July 17. >> >> Thanks! >> >> [1] http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/RCBC_proposed_% >> 22BC_Computer_Reuse_Standard%22 >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://freegeekvancouver.org >> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Wed Jul 18 12:20:02 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:20:02 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Emergency Free Geek Meeting - minutes from July 17 Message-ID: <469E67E2.5010008@freegeekvancouver.org> Emergency Free Geek Meeting When: Tuesday, July 17, 2007 at 7:00pm Place: Free Geek Headquarters, 117 East 2nd Ave. Facilitator: Paul Scribe: Jeff Minutes Checker: Ifny Attendance: David, Joe, Simeon, Richard, Rhianon, Sean, Scott, Shab, Roc, Jeff, Paul, Ifny This was an emergency public meeting to discuss the Recycling Council of BC's Computer Reuse Standard, which aims to establish standards for quality control among reuse organizations. * Background The provincial government's e-waste recycling program comes into effect on August 1. At last May's RCBC conference in Whistler, some RCBC members (including Free Geek) expressed concern that the program has no provision for reuse. In response, RCBC has been developing its Computer Reuse Standard program, which aims to establish standards for quality control in the reuse of e-waste through a process of certifying groups involved in the refurbishing and reuse of old hardware. The certification program will not be mandatory, but obviously it would greatly benefit Free Geek to be certified. A few days ago RCBC sent David Repa several draft documents pertaining to the program and asked for feedback; their aim is to finalize the documents by August 1. As David announced in an earlier email to the general mailing list, the draft documents have been posted to the FreeGeek wiki: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/RCBC_proposed_%22BC_Computer_Reuse_Standard%22 David and Ifny called the July 17 meeting so that Free Geek members would have a chance to discuss the documents and develop an official response to the program as it is currently proposed. Each document was discussed in turn. * Residual Lifespan Criteria This document outlines criteria for determining whether a piece of hardware should be reused or discarded. Under these criteria, only recent, relatively powerful machines running Windows (or recent Macs) would be eligible for reuse; everything else would have to be discarded. (See the wiki for more details.) The group raised a number of concerns: -The proposed criteria don't allow for free or open-source software, and reinstalling existing proprietary operating systems likely requires purchasing a new license. -Lots of the donations we receive wouldn't meet these criteria even though older machines can be quite useful -- for example, the 14 LSTP workstations in the computer lab wouldn't meet the criteria, despite being perfectly appropriate for a work/education environment. They were made from P2s. -Computers are treated as a whole, with no provision for dismantling machines and reusing or replacing parts (or repurposing old parts for other purposes, like using old printer components for robotics projects). -Educational, repurposing, experimental, or artistic re-use should not be excluded from consideration. In general, the proposed minimum requirements are extremely simplistic and don't apply well to practical applications/problems of reusing computer technology. Such "minimum requirements" were almost entirely rejected by the group. It was noted that the program's desire to ensure that obsolete equipment was not dumped on consumers is a good one. The spirit of reuse however is severly crippled in the draft. Sim suggested that a requirement for refurbished equipment to be "marketable" (i.e., likely to appeal to end-users) might be better. He commented that the focus seems to be on being a collection point, at the expense of other things. Ifny noted that maybe RCBC's original idea was to ensure that only legimate, working equipment was sent overseas. She proposed if that was case, some minimum requirements might be restricted to working items shipped abroad. This would help ensure that developing countries get easily usable equipment, while allowing groups in BC to find creative ways of reusing as much hardware as possible. It was noted that Free Geek does not consider sending workable items to poorer countries to be appropriate, since there is no sustainable recycling infrastructiure. * Pledge of Stewardship To be certified by RCBC, reuse organizations would have to sign (and be bound by) a 10-point "BC Computer Reuse Organization Pledge of Stewardship." FG members had problems with many of the points in this pledge. Contentious points from the pledge are reproduced below, with FG members' comments following. "1. We will not allow any residual computer waste that is not suitable for reuse to be sent to solid waste, landfills or incinerators for disposal or energy recovery, either directly or through intermediaries." - Members thought FG should get clarification on whether "incineration" includes smelting. "2. We commit to ensuring that unusable electronics will be directed for safe environmentally responsible recycling through the approved provincially mandated e-waste stewardship program." - This point would force FG to recycle discarded e-waste through Encorp, thus preventing us from seeking better, more environmentally friendly alternatives. - Dave proposed mandating transparency, rather than mandating who the recycler is. - Sim suggested rewording this point to say "...recycling that meets the minimum standards set by the provincial program." It was observed that the program's minimum standards aren't explicitly defined; in theory, Encorp's practices would be the de facto minimum standard. - Ifny suggested more articulated standards, like BAN's (e.g. no prison labour, not shipping to non-OECD countries) - Members noted that forcing everyone to go though Encorp might at least keep some disreputable recyclers from cutting corners (e.g., shipping toxic waste materials to other countries). However, everyone felt that this requirement was unacceptable. Points 3-5 were acceptable to all members, except that point 4 should read "reload AN operating system" rather than "reload THE operating system." It was stated that installing an operating system after data wiping is good for data security. However, there is no good reason that only the previous operating system should be reinstalled. Any operating system would do, including Linux. "6. We agree to provide ESBC with details as to the number of whole units collected as well as the number of whole units donated or sold on an annual basis. We will also document and report the number of whole units and the volume of components, by weight, diverted for recycling through the BC stewardship program." - Several members objected to this on the grounds that ESBC is an industry group rather than a government or civil society group. - Members discussed why this data would be collected (to provide an audit trail; to use in the recycling program's PR materials, demographic info). - Support was expressed at the potential to make other organisations more transparent. - Joe suggested that these details should be provided to "the public" (e.g., by posting them on FG's website) rather than giving them to ESBC. Members supported this proposal. "7. We agree to adhere to environmentally responsible operating methods as well as municipal and provincial bylaws and regulations. We will ensure that any unregulated wastes will be disposed of in an environmentally responsible manner in line with the spirit of the Recycling Regulation. We will provide liability insurance for accidents and incidents involving wastes under our control and ownership." - Members had no problem with the first two clauses. - The question of insurance was subject to much debate. Some members felt that environmental insurance was a good idea; others felt that requiring environmental insurance could push smaller reuse groups (possibly including FG) out of business. Members expressed concern for both environmental protection and corporate responsibility. Ultimately the issue was tabled pending more research before FG takes a stance on this subject. "8. We will ensure due diligence throughout the period that the product is in our procession with a transparent and documented record of the chain of possession from acquisition to dispensation." - Members again felt this point was simplistic, since "product" requires clarification. How does it relate to components of a computer? - There was concern that FG would have to assign part numbers to all parts of disassembled machines to satisfy this requirement. Paul suggested that if it came to that, we could probably discount most parts as peripheral and only track major components like motherboards. - Ifny noted that we don't want to have to track the original donor of each item, since doing so would raise privacy concerns and would be labor-intensive. "9. We agree to support BC's regulated Electronics Extended Producer Responsibility (EPR) program by streaming residual E-waste to the program for disposal, providing information and data to assist in program monitoring and evaluation, providing feedback to improve program performance and cooperating with program stakeholders." - Members were not comfortable with being required to "support" EPR; we want FG to be free to criticize the program if need be, and be an organisation that the public can trust to be unbiased. Cooperation with program stakeholders was particularly problematic and requires clarification Members had no objection to point 10. * Qualification Questionnaire To be certified by RCBC, reuse organizations would need to complete a questionnaire. Members felt that the questionnaire was acceptable. It was noted that some of the questions, such as the one about waste permits, could apply to FG, and that it would be worthwhile to follow up on those points. Ifny proposed anti-oppression training could be part of our own "industry" training. * Further Discussion Ifny read out an email from the Basel Action Network which outlined its stance on various pertinent issues, such as shipping refurbished hardware to developing countries and the hazards of smelting. Members strongly approved of BAN's opinions. BAN invited FG to incorporate this material into its response to the proposed reuse standards. Ifny will post BAN's opinions on the FG website. They are also included at the bottom of these minutes. Members discussed whether it would be all right to share the RCBC draft documents publicly. Since there was no restriction on sharing them when FG received them, members felt it probably wasn't a problem. We are extremely pleased to have been consulted for feedback and included in this loop. A draft response will be sent to the general mailing list by Thursday. Members agreed that FG's response should recognize that, despite our significant reservations about the draft documents, the provincial program is a major step in the right direction. Ifny suggested a press release to coincide with BAN movie night on Aug 2. The Communications workgroup will help to draft the press release. The following is BAN's statement: ----------begin cut---------- Basel Action Network maintains that: ----- Advanced recycling fees are not a good financing mechanism in that they do not involve the manufacturers in the end-of-life management of their products, and thereby do nothing to drive redesign for the environment and human health. If manufacturers have to pay for end-of-life costs (e.g. via incorporating these costs into the price of a new product), then they have a direct economic incentive to redesign their products to be less toxic, more upgradeable, more easily recycled, and perhaps longer lived. Ultimately, toxic waste issues must be addressed upstream in the manufacturing phase of a product?s lifecycle. ----- Reuse of electronics is environmentally preferable to destruction, but only if tested working and labeled equipment with a long life is allowed into the reuse market, and particularly the developing countries. Both the EU and Australia have developed detailed criteria for determining when a used electronic is a product acceptable for exporting for reuse, or is a waste, based on interpretation of the international treaty (Basel Convention) that governs the trade in toxic wastes. (www.basel.int) Our criteria for tested working equipment would allow for older equipment that runs on open source software to be allowed into the reuse market, if it is tested and fully functional, and has a reasonable life expectancy. ----- Refurbishment/repair of equipment generated in developed countries such as Canada or the US must occur in the developed world prior to export to developing countries, if those repairs will result in the replacement or removal of a hazardous part (such as circuit boards, CRTs, fluorescent lamps, batteries, etc.) In order to determine what types of repairs are needed, testing must be accomplished. ----- Smelters play an important role in reclaiming metals from materials. Because smelting always creates toxins, it is important to only use smelters that use the best technology to minimize the creation of dioxins and furans, and to capture toxic air emissions. Circuit boards and other metal-bearing e-scrap generated in developed countries should only be smelted in developed countries. We support the use of smelters in countries such as Canada, US, Belgium and Sweden, rather than using smelters in the developing countries. We do not support sending this entire e-waste stream directly to smelters, where much of the materials are not reclaimed, but rather are burned (which is a form of disposal, including waste-to-energy processes.) End-of-life electronics should be manually or mechanically separated and subsequent materials sent for material separation and reuse (e.g. plastics back into plastics usage, etc.) rather than burned or used as BTUs in a thermal process, even in waste-to-energy facilities. Thermal processing of plastics impregnated with brominated flame retardants can create brominated dioxins and furans at certain temperatures. ----------end cut---------- From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Thu Jul 19 01:42:25 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:42:25 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Reporter's questions, anyone feel like putting in their $0.02? Message-ID: <469F23F1.9040900@freegeekvancouver.org> Her deadline is Friday am, so shoot fast! (This is for the Tooth & Dagger btw). Pick any Q's that grab you... 1. What do you think of smeltering of whole units as a solution to BC's e-waste problem? 2. How sustainable is this solution in the long run? 3. How effective is it in avoiding health issues that arise from dumping ? 4. In your view, what is the best electronics recycling system available today? How costly is it in comparison to the BC plan? 5. How much of a role do you think local computer recycling/redistribution organizations can play in tackling the e-waste problem? 6. Other countries, particularly the Scandinavian ones, make incineration (at least of toxic components) illegal, what do you think is holding Canada back from taking stronger environmental/health conscious e-waste initiatives? 7. How much responsibility should the producers have in the disposal of the products they make? The consumers? 8. The RCBC has set forth a quite stringent reuse standard criteria. As an open-software based organization, what are some of your concerns regarding this criteria? 9. How effective do you think a program like BC's pledge of stewardship will be at curbing the overseas shipments of electronics to non-OECD countries? 10. Some people have proposed implementing an electronics return payment like we have with bottles and cans to incite more people to recycle, do you think something like this is necessary or realistic? 11. The e-waste problem seems increasingly insurmountable, what steps do you see as necessary on both the individual and global scale to ensure that e-waste is dealt with responsibly? Free Geek stuff: - What do you accept as donations? Percentage redistributed? Percentage recycled? Your current recycling process? - What initiatives is Free Geek taking in response to the BC recycling plan? From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Thu Jul 19 04:23:18 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:23:18 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Car Free Day Part II, volunteers needed Message-ID: <469F49A6.6070809@freegeekvancouver.org> Hey gang, We've got a Free Geek booth at the 2nd Commercial Drive Car Free Day. We'll be at Grandview Park (Commercial Drive & Charles) from 12-6pm. If you feel like volunteering for an hour or 2, please email me. ifny [at] freegeekvancouver [dot] org You can help by: - being at the booth, telling curious folks about ewaste, or our programs, or how Free Geek rocks (if you haven't been at a Free Geek booth before, you will pick it up by hanging around the booth) - bringing us snacks or drinks - coming by & saying "hellooo you bunch of geeks!" We really like that. More info about the festival: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/190821/ From iamlachance at gmail.com Thu Jul 19 04:27:06 2007 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:27:06 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Car Free Day Part II, volunteers needed In-Reply-To: <469F49A6.6070809@freegeekvancouver.org> References: <469F49A6.6070809@freegeekvancouver.org> Message-ID: <469F4A8A.3000602@gmail.com> Whoops, that's this Sunday, July 22. Ifny wrote: > Hey gang, > > We've got a Free Geek booth at the 2nd Commercial Drive Car Free Day. > > We'll be at Grandview Park (Commercial Drive & Charles) from 12-6pm. If > you feel like volunteering for an hour or 2, please email me. > ifny [at] freegeekvancouver [dot] org > > You can help by: > - being at the booth, telling curious folks about ewaste, or our > programs, or how Free Geek rocks (if you haven't been at a Free Geek > booth before, you will pick it up by hanging around the booth) > - bringing us snacks or drinks > - coming by & saying "hellooo you bunch of geeks!" We really like that. > > More info about the festival: http://upcoming.yahoo.com/event/190821/ > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From ben at computerdolt.com Thu Jul 19 11:04:37 2007 From: ben at computerdolt.com (Ben Holt) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2007 11:04:37 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Reporter's questions, anyone feel like putting in their $0.02? In-Reply-To: <469F23F1.9040900@freegeekvancouver.org> References: <469F23F1.9040900@freegeekvancouver.org> Message-ID: <469FA7B5.1020502@computerdolt.com> Ifny said the following on 07/19/2007 01:42 AM: > 7. How much responsibility should the producers have in the disposal of > the products they make? The consumers? Ultimately, regardless of whether it is the producers or the consumers who are held responsible it will be the consumer who will pay. - By holding the producer responsible for the product disposal the cost will be included in the purchase price. This will make it very easy for consumers to make appropriate decisions. - The field will be levelled for low cost producers who have not invested in green technology and higher cost producers who have. - Consumers will not be tempted to avoid disposal costs associated with responsible recycling by dumping etc. as they will have already paid the cost at purchase time. My $0.02 - Ben From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Fri Jul 20 20:02:35 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:02:35 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] "BC Computer Reuse Standard" Message-ID: <46A1774B.6040103@freegeekvancouver.org> Greetings Geeks, This was our official response to RCBC's draft proposal for computer reuse standards. It can also be viewed on the wiki at http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Response_%28draft%29 You can view RCBC's draft proposal documents here: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/RCBC_proposed_%22BC_Computer_Reuse_Standard%22 Re: RCBC Computer Reuse Organization Standard Free Geek's membership met recently to discuss the proposed standard. We are very encouraged by the spirit of the document, particularly in its attempts to link acceptable re-use guidelines to transparency. We strongly agree that there is a critical need to certify re-use organizations and resellers in BC, and that strict standards to which these organizations can be held will go a long way toward eliminating unethical or illegal practices. However, our membership has a number of serious concerns, which will be described in detail later in this document along with proposed resolutions, the most serious being as follows: 1. We are uncomfortable with formal requirements to endorse BC's EPR program, and to the mandatory direction of all unusable electronics to recyclers chosen without our consent. As a community-based organization promoting transparency and accountability, we cannot commit to supporting a program which has not yet been explicitly defined and which we have not audited. An organisation like ours must always reserve the right to seek better alternatives where possible, without bias. Additionally, we consider articulated standards more constructive than mandatory recyclers. 2. We consider the residual lifespan criteria to be wastefully restrictive. It would needlessly prohibit innovative reuse and repurpose models, and greatly reduce the amount of reusable product, inherent educational benefits and research opportunities. The remainder of this document comprises a detailed listing of all of our concerns, proposed resolutions, and commentary from the Basel Action Network. A. Pledge of Stewardship We will address each item individually. 1. We strongly agree with the majority of this item. However, clarification of the term "incineration" would be helpful, and how it relates to smelting. There has been speculation that e-waste collected at official depots will be wholly smelted; this would hinder re-use organizations from participating meaningfully in the program. 2. An organisation like ours must always reserve the right to seek better alternatives where possible, without undue bias. At this time we are unable to evaluate the program's environmental practices, as they have yet to be fully articulated. Therefore we cannot commit to directing unusable electronics to the provincially mandated e-waste stewardship program. Instead of a mandated recycler, we prefer articulated standards like those provided by the Basel Action Network (e.g. no prison labour, not shipping to non-OECD countries; see the BAN pledge at http://ww.ban.org/pledge/electronics_recycler_pledge.pdf) 3. We agree. 4. We agree, with one minor edit: "reload the operating system" should become "reload an operating system", to allow for the operating system loaded being different from the one previously resident on the disk prior to wiping. 5. We agree. 6. We consider transparency essential to regulation, and are pleased to see industry-led pressure on this front. However we are reluctant to submit all re-use data to ESBC as it is an industry group, rather than a government or public body. We consider it more appropriate to require that every re-use organisation make these details available to the general public, in an easily accessed location such as a website or wiki. For some time, other Free Geeks have taken some such measures voluntarily as a matter of course. (See an example at http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/PDX_Recycling_Vendors) 7. We agree to the spirit of the item. However, we are concerned that the cost of such insurance may be prohibitive to smaller organizations and must withhold final comment until we have researched the matter. 8. We feel this point is considerably vague; the term "product" requires elaboration. How does it relate to the components of a computer, which may be disassembled and reassembled? CRT monitors could be tracked, but almost every component inside a computer could be swapped out; some of these parts may be reusable and some not. Also, we would like assurance that organisations are not required to collect personal information about the persons donating the product, to maintain individuals' privacy. 9. We are uncomfortable with formal requirements to endorse BC's EPR program. As a community-based organization promoting transparency and accountability, we cannot commit to supporting a program which has not yet been explicitly defined and which we have not audited. We desire further details regarding the phrase "co-operating with program stakeholders." All organisations should be encouraged to incessant pursuit of best environmental practices, and to bring public attention to any practice that falls short. In this spirit it is our pleasure and duty to work with others to improve the program. 10. We agree. B. Residual Lifespan Criteria With respect to systems for export to developing countries: We agree that there is an urgent need to regulate the type of systems sent overseas for "re-use", as most hardware currently shipped under this label is in fact scrap. An age limit is probably a better indication of the remaining lifespan of the system; more detailed specifications, such as processor speed or hard disk size, are unnecessary, since they are directly correlated with the system's age, and will in fact change over time, necessating updating of the standard. However, we must note that Free Geek does not consider sending used items to less developed countries to be appropriate unless there is clear provision either for proper recycling in those countries, or for shipping the items back to developed countries where they may be properly recycled. With respect to systems re-used domestically or in developed countries: We find the proposed minimum requirements to be overly simplistic and unsuited to the practical issues inherent in computer technology reuse, for the following reasons: 1. Computers are treated as a whole, with no provision for dismantling machines and reusing or replacing parts. Some parts can be repurposed for other purposes, like using old printer components for robotics research, or using systems or parts for cultural/artistic endeavors or as film props. Occasionally, there are direct applications for legacy hardware in the corporate and public sector, such as old floppy disk readers, or keyboards for expensive industrial manufacturing infrastructure. (See http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/GVRD_legacy_reuse) Older industrial machinery in particular can expand its longevity by replacing worn-out hard-to-find components. 2. There is no provision for free or open-source software as an alternative to propriety operating systems. Open source software can prolong the lifetime of older hardware and enables lower-cost refurbished systems, since there is no need to purchase new software licenses. 3. Our experiences have shown that the proposed minimum standard would wastefully divert a large amount of working, reusable hardware to recycling. In particular, thin client networks can be created using one powerful server and many less-powerful client computers. An example is the Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP), recently adopted by the Kamloops District 73 School (see article: http://www.sd73.bc.ca/district-operations.php/page/linux-in-education/). Free Geek's own LTSP lab is composed of Pentium-III 500mhz computers. Our membership is generally is agreement that, with the possible exception of overseas shipping, a residual lifespan criteria is wastefully restrictive. It would needlessly prohibit innovative reuse and repurpose models, and greatly reduce the amount of reusable product, inherent educational benefits and research opportunities. C. Implementation Plan We would like a definition of "person-to-person exchanges". D. Conclusion We support in principle the regulation of computer reuse organizations in BC. We look forward to further involvement in the development of this program. Appendix. Commentary from Basel Action Network Free Geek's opinions on e-waste and recycling are strongly influenced by those of the Basel Action Network (BAN). The following is a BAN statement articulating their position. Basel Action Network maintains that: 1. Advanced recycling fees are not a good financing mechanism in that they do not involve the manufacturers in the end-of-life management of their products, and thereby do nothing to drive redesign for the environment and human health. If manufacturers have to pay for end-of-life costs (e.g. via incorporating these costs into the price of a new product), then they have a direct economic incentive to redesign their products to be less toxic, more upgradeable, more easily recycled, and perhaps longer lived. Ultimately, toxic waste issues must be addressed upstream in the manufacturing phase of a product?s lifecycle. 2. Reuse of electronics is environmentally preferable to destruction, but only if tested working and labeled equipment with a long life is allowed into the reuse market, and particularly the developing countries. Both the EU and Australia have developed detailed criteria for determining when a used electronic is a product acceptable for exporting for reuse, or is a waste, based on interpretation of the international treaty (Basel Convention) that governs the trade in toxic wastes. (www.basel.int) Our criteria for tested working equipment would allow for older equipment that runs on open source software to be allowed into the reuse market, if it is tested and fully functional, and has a reasonable life expectancy. 3. Refurbishment/repair of equipment generated in developed countries such as Canada or the US must occur in the developed world prior to export to developing countries, if those repairs will result in the replacement or removal of a hazardous part (such as circuit boards, CRTs, fluorescent lamps, batteries, etc.) In order to determine what types of repairs are needed, testing must be accomplished. 4. Smelters play an important role in reclaiming metals from materials. Because smelting always creates toxins, it is important to only use smelters that use the best technology to minimize the creation of dioxins and furans, and to capture toxic air emissions. Circuit boards and other metal-bearing e-scrap generated in developed countries should only be smelted in developed countries. We support the use of smelters in countries such as Canada, US, Belgium and Sweden, rather than using smelters in the developing countries. We do not support sending this entire e-waste stream directly to smelters, where much of the materials are not reclaimed, but rather are burned (which is a form of disposal, including waste-to-energy processes.) End-of-life electronics should be manually or mechanically separated and subsequent materials sent for material separation and reuse (e.g. plastics back into plastics usage, etc.) rather than burned or used as BTUs in a thermal process, even in waste-to-energy facilities. Thermal processing of plastics impregnated with brominated flame retardants can create brominated dioxins and furans at certain temperatures. From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 23 15:12:37 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:12:37 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Recent e-waste article Message-ID: <46A527D5.2060400@freegeekvancouver.org> Feedback welcome! Though it's alreddy published...It was designed to be an intro to e-waste. EWASTE: A DIRTY LITTLE SECRET By Ifny Lachance SLEEPING DRAGONS We're cozy with our electronics, We give them names and sit them on our laps. They wake us up in the morning, fix us coffee, bring the newspaper. They bear messages from lovers. Yet computer compenents play host to some of the most persistent pollutants found in the biosphere. Ingredients read like a Borgian cocktail menu: Mercury in LCD screens can cause central nervous system and kidney damage. Monitors and circuit boards contain lead, which damages brains and kidneys, and poisons the blood. Lead, along with barium, protects users from radiation while sitting in front of the computer; encounter it in your air, water or food and it will damage your internal organs. Cadmium is part of the phosphor compund inside CRT monitors. Inhaled, it can cause severe respiratory distress, emphysema, death. It accumulates along the foodchain, particularly in wheat, rice and potatoes and the tissue of shellfish. When ingested, it disrupts the functioning of the liver, bones and kidneys. It's also a carcinogen, along with beryllium on motherboards and toner from printers. Computers are manufactured cheaply in poor countries, due to less stringent environmental standards and loose occupational regulations. Consumers in weathier countries blissfully enjoy the benign phase of the IT life-cycle, as toxins squirrelled away inside hardware remain quiescent until disturbed. FRIENDLY FIRE Particularly problematic are polybrominated diphenyl ethers (PBDEs), flame retardants impregnated in the plastic of electronics. They're used in everthing from coffee makers to computers. Brominated flame retardants are rising stars on the global pollutant charts. Close chemical cousins of PCBs, they're endocrine disruptors, confounding hormones and reproductive systems after they leach into the environment. When burned or buried, they can become dioxins, which cause DNA mutation. Such substances biomagnify, meaning they progressively accumulate all the way along the food chain. They can be passed onto an organism's predators and young, leading to very high concentrations in creatures like marine mammals, and less intelligent species like homo sapiens. We're lucky. We live in a country with legislation protecting us from direct contact with these substances. But of course, once toxic substances enter the biosphere, the sky's the limit. According to Health Canada, Canadian women have PBDE levels of five to ten times higher than women in any other industrial country. In Europe, between 47,000 to 95,000 square kilometers are already known to be contaminated by hazardous wastes. Countries such as the Netherlands have spent over a billion dollars to minimize and collect dioxin from incinerators, but still have to contend with hazardous emissions and disposal of toxic ashes. Modern, programmable computers were first created about 70 years ago. Regrettably, modern sustainability has lagged at a glacial pace. The ice caps are not amused. TSUNAMI OF EWASTE Ten years ago, the average life span of a computer was six years. Now it's two. Canadians generate 70,000 tons of computer garbage annually; that would equal about 2,800,000 computers. UN figures say 50 million tonnes of ewaste are generated yearly. Our passion for innovation and speed leaves us vulnerable to all manner of confidence games. Welcome to the garden path. Your guides? Microsoft, Apple & Co. Software companies like Microsoft pressure consumers to upgrade their computers. They purposely make their products incompatible with previous versions, so people feel the need to keep up or be left behind (why else is Windows 98 not compatible with XP or NT, other than greed?). Artificial bloat makes software slower and more demanding than necessary, increasing pressure to buy new computers. This in turn keeps hardware manufacturers sitting pretty. Both software and hardware are often cynically designed to become obsolete in a fixed time frame, a profit-exploiting strategy called planned obsolescence. A recent survey by Softchoice Corporation found that only half of all business computers in North America meet the minimum requirements for Microsoft's new operating system, Vista. Only 5% of current computers in England can run its full features. Thus the term ?the Vista layer,? Greenpeace's vision of future archaeologists unearthing mounds of abruptly discarded systems. Vista's demanding system requirements can be largely traced to features designed to monitor and control users' behaviour, all in the name of protecting Microsoft from software piracy. Despite its notorious bugs, security holes and incompatability, many consumers feel like they have no choice but to junk their computer and upgrade. The City of Vancouver plans to spend over $7 million to switch to Vista. Think Apple is better? That's what their marketing department would have you believe. Apple fashionista hardware is heavily proprietary, making replacement parts expensive and non-interchangable. The iPod is a textbook example, where a replacement battery is not as cost-effective as buying a whole new iPod, and seductive new releases are constant. Additionally, in the absence of legislative pressure, Apple and other hardware manufacturers continue to employ noxious ingredients that later become toxic waste. This dumps the environmental costs onto governments and ultimately citizens. PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE VS. SUSTAINABLE SOFTWARE Some citizens would rather dump proprietary software instead, and get more life out of their computers. Consumer alternatives have been around for about 20 years, and have more recently bloomed user-friendly and accessible. Free and open source (aka collaborative) software is community-based and supported, and designed to promote individual liberty and collaboration in design. Examples include Linux operating systems like Ubuntu, browsers like Firefox, or office suites like Open Office. They are considered virus-free, more stable and can be freely updated online. Less bloated, they work on older hardware, and they play well with other formats like .docs. After all, free and open software is designed to facilitate community needs, not shareholders. The market is starting to respond. Dell has released a computer that ships with the Ubuntu operating system. This is a brave move, considering Microsoft's clout and history of coercing hardware manufacturers. Governments, particularly at the municipal level, are starting to consider free and open source software as a practical, cost-effective alternative. After all, why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? FUN FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY In North America, unwanted hardware is often thrown in municipal landfills, or stored by folks who are unsure just where it should go. More conscientious consumers deliver their materials to recyclers. ?Recycler? sounds green and friendly. Unfortunately, about 80% of this hardware heads directly offshore to poorer countries, usually China. There, ?recycling? generally consists of haphazard dumping, burning, and picking through by unprotected workers. Entire villages devote themselves to this industry, from seniors to kids. With hands or crude tools, wearing little or no safety equipment, they contaminate themselves and their communities. Circuit boards are held one-by-one over coal fires to melt off the lead sodder. Hydrochloric acid solutions in open vats are sloshed over chips and cards to remove the gold, and poured into the nearest water supply or onto the ground. Piles of wires are burned. Monitors tubes are smashed with hammers to recover the copper yoke, exposing workers to phosphor compounds. Leftover leaded glass and plastic junk is dumped in irrigation canals or fields. The ecosystem has become well acquainted with this mess. One would be hard pressed to find potable water in rural China these days. In the notorious Chinese city of Guiyu alone, the ewaste industry is estimated to be worth CDN$140 million. It's about the size of North Vancouver, population 130,000. One million tonnes of ewaste are treated here yearly by 5500 family-based operations, supporting 100,000 migrant workers. Guiyu bloodstreams are laden with lead, according to a 2006 study by Shantou University Medical College. Local creeks have the Ph level of strong acids. The photographer Edward Burtynsky seduced the public's eye with beautiful, terrible images of industrial wastelands around the world. Many of these are ewaste sites; certainly they are not the usual images evoked by the term 'recycling.' THE DIRTY LITTLE SECRET Electronic trash is now considered the most heavily traded toxic waste in the world. In 1992, Canada ratified the Basel Convention, agreeing not to ship hazardous waste to poorer countries. In 1996, China prohibited the import of ewaste. Yet business continues to boom. Watchdog organisations like the Basel Action Network (B.A.N.) point to a lack of enforcement. Their investigations of ewaste dumping abuses sent a wake-up call to the international community; they also advocate for the use of non-toxic materials in computer manufacturing and a crack-down on rampant smuggling. Unscrupulous exporters physically hide or euphemize the contents of shipments, referring to toxic waste as "recyclables" or "plastic waste." More cynically, they pretend that shipments are bound for repair or charitable re-use abroad. About 75% computers sent to cities like Lagos, Nigeria for this purpose are irredemable junk on arrival. Founder and environmental justice activist Jim Puckett was instrumental in ensuring the Basel Convention had teeth. He speaks plainly about the disappointing lack of scrutiny, particularly in North America: "Until recently, nobody bothered to enforce the rules even though Canada is a Party to the Basel Convention...The dirty little secret is that the electronics manufacturers and governments and a cadre of unscrupulous recyclers are all benefitting immensely via an illicit traffic in hazardous waste electronics that moves largely from Canada and the United States to countries like Nigeria, India, Pakistan and especially to China...Toxic waste, if left to a 'free market,' will follow the path of least resistance." While Environment Canada has begun to investigate outgoing containers in the Port of Vancouver, he says that smugglers know their chances of getting caught are "slim." The toxic heritage of the Industrial Revolution is becoming too generous for one planet to bear. From the bubbling soil of False Creek to the pea soup over Hamilton to the black water of Guiyu Province, we are faced with convergence of crises. We need more than science, law and enforcement. We need every last one of us. THE MORE THINGS CHANGE There is good news. As of this August, old electronics will be turned away from BC landfills. Consumers will pay a fee when buying new goods, financing new end-of-life depots handling ewaste. The program is being conducted by Electronics Stewardship Association of British Columbia (ESABC) and will be managed and administered by Encorp, of bottle-depot fame. A commitment has been made to not export to poorer nations; most probably all materials will be incinerated on Canadian soil. For many sustainability advocates, it is bittersweet news. Producers who continue to use hazardous materials are still not held accountable for environmental costs. Local recyclers will be left out of the loop. While superficially attractive as a form of Zero Waste, incineration is controversial and hardly considered innovative. Worse, no provision has been made for re-use, perhaps the most direct form of sustainability. British Columbians who cannot afford a computer will continue to be left behind. Re-use reduces consumption and prevents waste, while conserving resources required to manufacture new goods. The ESABC plan is starting to come under fire by non-profits and community organisations for ignoring both recycling and re-use alternatives to incineration. Our grandmothers knew that an ounce of waste prevention is worth a pound of cure. WHAT YOU CAN DO: RE-USE -However good your intentions, you should NEVER leave your old computer equipment in an alley, exposing it to the neighbourhood kids and the elements. Give it to a friend, or a reputable re-use organisation like Computers for Schools http://www.cfsbc.ca/ or Free Geek Community Technology Centre http://freegeekvancouver.org -Repair or replace parts rather than entire systems whevenever possible. -Consider buying refurbished systems from reputable organisations instead of new. REDUCE -Resist the pressures of planned obsolescence and the tempation to prematurely upgrade -Consider sustainable software like Ubuntu or Open Office that extend the capacity of hardware. -Try to use a multi-use product, instead of many items that have one function. RECYCLE Before you give up your hardware to a recycler, do your research. What is a company's environmental/business record like? Where do they send their materials? Beware that materials can pass through many hands, and they may be unaware, or mislead you intentionally. Use Google and watchdog organisations like the Basel Action Network as informative resources. http://www.ban.org Ifny Lachance is a founding director of Free Geek Community Technology Centre in Vancouver. She hosts the Pedal Revolutionary Radio Show on CiTR. She can be found riding her bicycle or glued to her computer. From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 23 18:12:51 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:12:51 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] moving monitors Message-ID: <1185239572.6631.89.camel@freegeek1> Hey all, Is anyone available tomorrow morning for some grunt work? I have to load a truck with 30 or so monitors and take them to Burnaby. I am looking to be here around 8:30am to load. Give me a quick call to let me know. 604-690-7372. Thanks -- David From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Mon Jul 23 18:32:27 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:32:27 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] [Fwd: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally.] Message-ID: <1185240747.6631.95.camel@freegeek1> -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: David Repa To: fg-software at freegeekvancouver.org Subject: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally. Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:17:57 -0700 Ok folks. Tuesday July 24, 2007, @ 18:30hrs. We have a software meeting. Joe if you can't make it let me know and we can move it. We shall make an agenda when we start, but I am sure we will talk about all the things that have been trickling through this list over the last two weeks. LTSP, distro stuff, install's etc etc. From seanmoffat at gmail.com Mon Jul 23 23:12:14 2007 From: seanmoffat at gmail.com (Sean Moffat) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:12:14 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] moving monitors In-Reply-To: <1185239572.6631.89.camel@freegeek1> References: <1185239572.6631.89.camel@freegeek1> Message-ID: <46A5983E.3000509@gmail.com> If no one has been able to help then give me a call in the morning since I don't have to babysit tomorow. Will set the alarm as well, for 7:30. So call me at that time if you need the help. If your in late send me a note since I'm up till 1 or 2 any way. Sean From unixd0od at hotmail.com Mon Jul 23 23:16:05 2007 From: unixd0od at hotmail.com (Joseph LeBlanc) Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 23:16:05 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] [Fwd: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally.] In-Reply-To: <1185240747.6631.95.camel@freegeek1> References: <1185240747.6631.95.camel@freegeek1> Message-ID: Do you mean Joe-> me? Or another Joe? I can't make Tuesday at 18:30. -----Original Message----- From: freegeek-van-bounces at lists.resist.ca [mailto:freegeek-van-bounces at lists.resist.ca] On Behalf Of David Repa Sent: July-23-07 18:32 To: FG-General Subject: [FreeGeek] [Fwd: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally.] -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: David Repa To: fg-software at freegeekvancouver.org Subject: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally. Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:17:57 -0700 Ok folks. Tuesday July 24, 2007, @ 18:30hrs. We have a software meeting. Joe if you can't make it let me know and we can move it. We shall make an agenda when we start, but I am sure we will talk about all the things that have been trickling through this list over the last two weeks. LTSP, distro stuff, install's etc etc. _______________________________________________ http://freegeekvancouver.org 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Jul 24 01:22:25 2007 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 01:22:25 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] [Fwd: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally.] In-Reply-To: References: <1185240747.6631.95.camel@freegeek1> Message-ID: <46A5B6C1.3030807@gmail.com> Joe B., since he had called the original meeting. But you'll be missed anyhoo. ~Ifny Joseph LeBlanc wrote: > Do you mean Joe-> me? Or another Joe? I can't make Tuesday at 18:30. > > -----Original Message----- > From: freegeek-van-bounces at lists.resist.ca > [mailto:freegeek-van-bounces at lists.resist.ca] On Behalf Of David Repa > Sent: July-23-07 18:32 > To: FG-General > Subject: [FreeGeek] [Fwd: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally.] > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: David Repa > To: fg-software at freegeekvancouver.org > Subject: [Fg-software] Meeting, finally. > Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:17:57 -0700 > > Ok folks. > > Tuesday July 24, 2007, @ 18:30hrs. We have a software meeting. Joe if > you can't make it let me know and we can move it. We shall make an > agenda when we start, but I am sure we will talk about all the things > that have been trickling through this list over the last two weeks. > LTSP, distro stuff, install's etc etc. > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Fri Jul 27 21:39:40 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 21:39:40 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] WOo Help us publicize B.A.N. movie night, posters and flyers in here!! Message-ID: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> The Basel Action Network movie night is just around the corner. Please help us get the word out! Put a poster, flyer or listing wherever you think is appropriate: online forums, mailing lists, laundry rooms, coffee shops, foreheads...the list is infinite. If everyone can put up even one poster, it will really help. Thanks! There are links to printable things below, and text for posting online. If you don't have access to a printer, you can pick up a poster from us at Free Geek, 117 East 2nd Ave (between Main & Quebec). ------>>> PRINTABLE POSTERS HERE: (at the bottom of each picture clink on the link "Download document in original format" if you want to print it.) http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/v/docs/banmovie.pdf.html AND HERE: http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/v/docs/ban+movie+night_001.pdf.html ------>>> FLYERS HERE: http://freegeekvancouver.org/en/v/docs/ban+movie+flyer.pdf.html?g2_imageViewsIndex=1 ------>>> TEXT THAT COULD BE CUT & PASTED: 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 DIRTY SECRETS: THE TOXIC E-WASTE TRADE FREE GEEK presents an evening of documentaries, discussion and d'accordion music! Thursday August 2, 2007 Admission FREE/BY DONATION. First come first serve. Doors 7:00pm, show 7:30. Fletcher Challenge Theatre (Room 1900) at SFU Harbour Centre. 515 W. Hastings Street (at Richards St.) We will screen the pivotal documentaries 'THE DIGITAL DUMP: Exporting Re-Use and Abuse to Africa' and 'EXPORTING HARM: The High-Tech Trashing of Asia.' SARAH WESTERVELT, from international watchdog organisation the BASEL ACTION NETWORK (B.A.N.), will speak on the illicit trade in computer waste here & abroad. Questions and discussion to follow. The CREAKING PLANKS will recycle and repurpose salvageable components of defunct and formerly toxic popular musics. MORE INFO: 604-879-4335 or http://freegeekvancouver.org This event is sponsored by the Recycling Council of British Columbia and Free Geek Community Technology Centre. 10101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010101010 From humble at resist.ca Sun Jul 29 16:09:02 2007 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:09:02 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Today on Slashdot: British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> Message-ID: <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> An anonymous reader writes "Next week the province of British Columbia will begin adding a recycling fee to new computers and TVs to pay for their free electronics recycling program. The list of what is acceptable for recycling is short, namely computers, printers, and TVs ? you cannot recycle personal audio players or cell phones. What is unclear is whether the definition of 'desktop computer' includes self-built computers, and if so, their plans for adding fees for individual components such as motherboards, etc." The article notes that the recovered e-waste will not be sent to developing countries for processing. But one report says that the e-waste won't be recycled at all, but rather burned in a smelter. Article, links and comments: http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/28/193210 From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Sun Jul 29 16:44:24 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (ifny) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 16:44:24 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Today on Slashdot: British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <1185752664.16698.109.camel@abulafia> Just so folks know, the Neoseeker article that is mentioned in the Slashdot story pulls heavily from an article that came out in the Richmond View. According to B.A.N., Sarah Westervelt was heavily misquoted in that article. Their open letter to the editor is below: Letter to Editor of Richmond Review from the Basel Action Network Dear Editor, Your July 14, 2007 article, Is new e-waste recycling program green enough? unfortunately misrepresented some of our thoughts and concerns about BCs new electronic waste program, while not properly explaining them. We are a Seattle-based global environmental group working to prevent the trade in toxic wastes to developing countries, and have become very active regarding e-waste recycling due to the massive amounts that are irresponsibly exported off-shore. We applaud British Columbias efforts to collect and responsibly recycle electronic waste. This difficult waste stream is complex and full of toxins, and many countries simply export it to developing countries, where it is having horrific impacts on human health and the environment, in many cases. Our understanding of the BC program is that it will not allow these toxic materials to be exported, which we whole-heartedly support. However, there are other ways to be irresponsible, and we are concerned that equipment collected by the program will not be made available for reuse, refurbishment, and re-purposing, and furthermore, the entire e-waste stream may possibly go straight to metal smelters. This latter practice is not supportable as it fails to maximize the longevity of used electronics, and also fails to reclaim the maximum amount of recyclable plastics. At the same time, highly toxic dioxins and furans can be created as a result of burning the plastics, not to mention the greenhouse gases exacerbating climate change. Instead, as a first priority, unwanted electronics should be directed to the reuse market, and remarketed after diligent repair, testing and labeling. Then the remaining end-of-life equipment that cannot be repaired or reused should be manually or mechanically separated into the various recyclable fractions, instead of simply throwing whole equipment directly into a smelter. Smelters are absolutely necessary for the recovery of metals but it is not appropriate to throw plastics in the mix simply because one can, even when energy is recovered. The argument that the plastics help supply fuel for the smelter does not justify this practice given the very low heat value from this source combined with the emissions of toxic substances and green-house gases. Even though most toxic emissions are captured in modern facilities, there are always hazardous waste residues remaining when processing toxic materials. Finally, British Columbia has chosen a financing mechanism, an advanced recycling fee, which will provide funding to properly manage the e-waste, but unfortunately will not place the responsibility primarily on electronic manufacturers for the impacts of the entire life cycle of their products, as is now practiced in Europe. Thus, the BC system will not provide manufacturers with an economic incentive to phase out toxins and design their products for easy recycling. The ultimate solution to this problematic waste stream is to redesign products with safer materials, and manufacturers are best positioned to accomplish this if they have to own their products when they become waste! We hope this clarifies our position regarding our concerns over the BC Electronic waste recycling legislation. Sarah Westervelt e-Waste Project Coordinator Basel Action Network 122 S. Jackson St., Suite 320 Seattle, WA 98104 206 652-5555 www.ban.org swestervelt at ban.org On Sun, 2007-29-07 at 16:09 -0700, agent humble wrote: > An anonymous reader writes "Next week the province of British Columbia will > begin adding a recycling fee to new computers and TVs to pay for their free > electronics recycling program. The list of what is acceptable for recycling > is short, namely computers, printers, and TVs ? you cannot recycle personal > audio players or cell phones. What is unclear is whether the definition > of 'desktop computer' includes self-built computers, and if so, their plans > for adding fees for individual components such as motherboards, etc." The > article notes that the recovered e-waste will not be sent to developing > countries for processing. But one report says that the e-waste won't be > recycled at all, but rather burned in a smelter. > > Article, links and comments: > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/28/193210 > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From simon at sheff2van.ca Sun Jul 29 18:29:24 2007 From: simon at sheff2van.ca (Simon Pavitt) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:29:24 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> Hi geekers > Article, links and comments: > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/28/193210 > And via Digg: [www.digg.com/hardware/Recycling_fees_coming_for_electronics_in_British_Columbia_Canada] there are some more details: [www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=96daec9f-b7bb-4458-9213-4ad6091ddc30&k=35120] The article lists recycling sites in Victoria but not Vancouver, and quotes one recycler: "But the introduction of this program will be sending independent electronic recyclers out of business, said James Webb, owner of Break Down Recycling in Esquimalt. His business charges people $10 to have their old computer monitors and TVs recycled or refurbished. He fears that people are now going to be dropping products off at depots that could be reused and refurbished instead of being sent to the smelter, he said, adding that he has privacy concerns too. I just don't understand how any people or corporations are going to trust their private information being dumped off at a Salvation Army depot; where's the security in that," he said." Salvation Army? -- Thanks Simon ======================================== simon pavitt www.headware.ca it's not hardware, it's not software, it's headware ======================================== From simon at sheff2van.ca Sun Jul 29 18:45:45 2007 From: simon at sheff2van.ca (Simon Pavitt) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:45:45 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> Message-ID: <46AD42C9.2000207@sheff2van.ca> Hi geekers A bit more media coverage, although Sun and Province give different emphasis: Province: "B.C. residents can now recycle their "e-waste" for free" [www.canada.com/theprovince/story.html?id=734c996e-b08a-4a7c-aae8-0c88de6faff9&k=281] Vancouver Sun: "Buyers to pay levy to recycle e-waste" [www.canada.com/vancouversun/news/westcoastnews/story.html?id=af356742-0f45-40a1-a948-6ea1a5fd211d] Thanks Simon ======================================== simon pavitt www.headware.ca it's not hardware, it's not software, it's headware ======================================== From ifny at freegeekvancouver.org Sun Jul 29 18:57:10 2007 From: ifny at freegeekvancouver.org (Ifny) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:57:10 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> Message-ID: <46AD4576.4070801@freegeekvancouver.org> Simon Pavitt wrote: > The article lists recycling sites in Victoria but not Vancouver, and > quotes one recycler: > > "But the introduction of this program will be sending independent > electronic recyclers out of business, said James Webb, owner of Break > Down Recycling in Esquimalt. His business charges people $10 to have > their old computer monitors and TVs recycled or refurbished. He fears > that people are now going to be dropping products off at depots that > could be reused and refurbished instead of being sent to the smelter, he > said, adding that he has privacy concerns too. I just don't understand > how any people or corporations are going to trust their private > information being dumped off at a Salvation Army depot; where's the > security in that," he said." > > Salvation Army? The Salvation Army is going to be a drop-off location for Encorp: http://www.encorp.ca/electronics/ ~Ifny From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Sun Jul 29 18:58:00 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:58:00 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> Message-ID: <1185760680.6380.18.camel@tiburon> On Sun, 2007-29-07 at 18:29 -0700, Simon Pavitt wrote: > Hi geekers > > > Article, links and comments: > > http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/28/193210 > > > > And via Digg: > [www.digg.com/hardware/Recycling_fees_coming_for_electronics_in_British_Columbia_Canada] > > there are some more details: > [www.canada.com/victoriatimescolonist/news/story.html?id=96daec9f-b7bb-4458-9213-4ad6091ddc30&k=35120] > > The article lists recycling sites in Victoria but not Vancouver, and > quotes one recycler: > > "But the introduction of this program will be sending independent > electronic recyclers out of business, said James Webb, owner of Break > Down Recycling in Esquimalt. His business charges people $10 to have > their old computer monitors and TVs recycled or refurbished. He fears > that people are now going to be dropping products off at depots that > could be reused and refurbished instead of being sent to the smelter, he > said, adding that he has privacy concerns too. I just don't understand > how any people or corporations are going to trust their private > information being dumped off at a Salvation Army depot; where's the > security in that," he said." > > Salvation Army? > From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Sun Jul 29 18:58:24 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 18:58:24 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] British Columbia To Charge Recycling Fee In-Reply-To: <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> References: <46AAC88C.6040508@freegeekvancouver.org> <200707291609.02553.humble@resist.ca> <46AD3EF4.90608@sheff2van.ca> Message-ID: <1185760704.6380.19.camel@tiburon> > information being dumped off at a Salvation Army depot; where's the > security in that," he said." > > Salvation Army? The Sally Anne is a partner in the Encorp program. -- David Repa Coordinator http://freegeekvancouver.org O - 604-879-4335 C - 604-690-7372 From david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org Tue Jul 31 19:04:28 2007 From: david.repa at freegeekvancouver.org (David Repa) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:04:28 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] glass to glass recycling quote Message-ID: <1185933868.18321.31.camel@freegeek1> Hello everyone, In case people wonder why we charge monitor fees. "Glass to glass recycling is viewed by the Environmental Protection Agency as the best use of this material. It is certainly preferable over sending it to a lead smelter, which can be environmentally sound, but doesn?t yield the benefits of overall glass-to-glass recycling. A main purpose of CRT?s rule is to promote [this], which has been a major intent from the beginning, starting with our Common Sense Initiative work," * Bob Tonetti Senior Environmental Scientist, Environmental Protection Agency Office of Solid Waste The company(CRT Processing)[1] Free Geek chose to use, uses this glass to glass recycling method. [1] http://www.crtprocessing.com/g2g.asp -- David Repa Coordinator http://freegeekvancouver.org W - 604-879-4335 C - 604-690-7372 From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Jul 31 19:30:17 2007 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 19:30:17 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Free Geek on CBC at 7:15 am tomorrow (Wed) Message-ID: <46AFF039.7020704@gmail.com> Hey, we're gonna be on the raydeeo again! Tomorrow, 7:15 am we're gonna be on CBC; it should be a little spicy. Can anyone record it? I believe it's 690AM, the show is the Early Edition. http://www.cbc.ca/earlyedition/ WOo! ~Ifny