[FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name

[stephan at buckmaster.ca]

Ok, thanks, that sounds a little better now, more independent. 

I am still not sure about the advantage of access to advice so much, since they published a lot already. And probably will continue publishing. And would they really care answering questions on their mailing lists? They might realize they will learn as much from the ensuing discussion, and hearing problems of a similar organization.

It's nice to be able to use the name. That seems to be the main advantage. But are they really known here? Don't we have to explain the concept from scratch anyway?

In general, to me it looks more like adding another constraint on  discussions and decisions - and paper work:

>From their wiki, http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Startup_Franchise_Application 
**  When ready, submit a much more lengthy application for ongoing status as a Free Geek or affiliate .... The Final Application for Ongoing Status as a Free Geek Franchise can be a little daunting. 


Its nice to see a lot of postings to this mailing list.

Cheers,

Stephan


At Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:02:42 -0800 , reallifesim at gmail.com wrote: 

>Stephan's post didn't arrive here, I've copied it from the archives:
><stephan at buckmaster.ca writes>
>> I don't think its a good idea to become a subsidiary of the Portland
>> Freegeek -- without even looking at the Portland Freegeek.
>
>I think it is a mistake to discount Portland without any
>consideration. Freegeek Portland has had six years of success doing
>what we are proposing to start doing here. Many of the problems we
>will surely face have been solved already in Portland.
>
>Discounting Portland's experience will cost us a great deal of extra
>work and quite likely cause us to make some of the same mistakes
>again.
>
>To be clear, what we are proposing is affiliate status, not
>subsidiary. My understanding is we wish to become an independent
>organization based on the Portland model. Meeting Portland's criteria
>for affiliation means that we can tell potential sponsors that we are
>following a proven model and have been audited by a successful
>organization and have received it's blessing.
>
>This would be a tremendous boon to our credibility and would also
>allow us to use the trademarked (and well known) Freegeek name.
>
>> For one, the more or less frequent visits to Portland bother me, and
>> would likely increase.
>> (See my book trafficlife.com) (Flying - even worse)
>
>I appreciate your position on vehicle use.
>
>I too am dismayed at our current vehicle culture. From suburban sprawl
>to the SUV arms race, the system is clearly broken. I do my part to
>try and make a difference. I have never owned a car, I've put tens of
>thousands of kilometers on bicycles instead. I choose to live close to
>where I work (or work close to where I live). I walk to the grocery
>store.
>
>I also drive a work truck about a thousand kilometers a week. It has a
>six litre V8 that burns hundreds of litres of fuel a week and is big
>and heavy enough to kill should I crash it.
>
>I could not do my job without the truck and as gross as it is, it
>would take more resources to transport what the truck can haul any
>other way.
>
>The projects I work on include dense urban housing developments and
>rapid transit. The people who live in the buildings I help create
>don't need to drive and many of them don't own cars.
>
>I'm proud to be a part of the Canada Line project. Before I got the
>work truck I had a bus pass. I took transit to sites all over the
>lower mainland for work. The Canada line will make commuting by
>transit better and faster for many people. A direct result of me
>driving an obscenely large vehicle is fewer vehicles on the road in
>the future.
>
>If a few trips to Portland can help save a few thousand tonnes of junk
>from being shipped to China that is a win. A 40 tonne container
>travelling 10,000km makes a trip to Portland look like a trip to the
>corner store. Never mind what happens to all that toxic crap overseas.
>
>Travel to other cities does have an environmental cost, even if you
>ride a bike, but it is still worthwhile. Travel opens new horizons and
>exposes people to different cultures and ideas. Staying in the same
>place your whole life is a great way to develop a xenophobic
>worldview.
>
>> On the other hand, I'm not sure how much knowledge is transferable.
>> Different populations, different geography,
>> after all. How much of this is just pure work and effort. And how much
>> of the information would be available
>> without being actually affiliated.
>
>Well, as far as lessons learned in Portland, their wiki has a good
>page on the history and progression of Freegeek Portland:
>http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Meta_Question
>
>That page also explains that Freegeek's growth has occurred largely in
>response to crises. The wiki page explains the crises and what
>happened, what their response was and what it led to.
>
>Just one of the things I learned from that page is that a thrift store
>can be a very effective way of covering operating costs.
>
>>From 1500 or so words I can glean hints like that. I know that a
>weekend in Portland and a few PBRs with Revphil will gain me far more
>insight than reading the wiki pages that folks down there have found
>the time to put together.
>
>The Portland folks would probably be more inclined to help if we
>sought affiliate status. Maybe not, but I know that I would be.
>
>I would encourage you to have a good look around the Portand wiki. If
>you still feel we have little to learn from the Portland experience
>after looking into it for yourself then I would love to hear your
>arguments.
>
>> Last, would we have a Portland society asking for local support?
>> (Vancity for example?) I think between
>> a Portland society, and one based in Vancouver, Vancity or any other
>> supporter we look up here, would
>> prefer to donate to the one based in Vancouver.
>
>I don't think we are proposing a financial or organizational union. I
>doubt Freegeek Portland would be willing to enter into one.
>
>It is a franchise. By giving us their name, they are asserting that we
>are following a model that is acceptable to them and has been proven
>to work in the past.
>
>The accounts, sales, donations and operations are independent. This is
>not to say that we would never give or receive assistance, but there
>is no obligation.
>
>There is no mention of a fee in the Portland wiki, but as they would
>be using staff time to help us it would not be unreasonable to charge
>one.
>
>The credibility affiliation would lend us should only help us in
>seeking support from our community. Vancity would be more likely to
>fund a project that has been successful in other places.
>
>> At least in my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to run a shop or two and
>> recycle computers, teach something
>> here and there.
>
>My vision is a number of programs:
>1) An adoption program to reuse old machines and teach people how to use them.
>
>2) A build program to create machines for adoption and teach people
>how to build machines.
>
>3) A recycling program to get toxic shit off of the street.
>
>4) A systems program to create and refine the software system
>installed on the reused machines. (This sounds easy, but becomes a
>pretty hard problem at big scales.)
>
>5) A introspective meta program to find ways to improve the other programs.
>
>It took Portland years to refine their programs. It would be negligent
>to ignore the knowledge base available in Portland. This is the sort
>of negligence that gets directors of corporations sued.
>
>If all we wanted to do was set up in some garage somewhere and play
>around with junk then we could safely ignore Portland. If we want to
>build a sustainable organization we must learn what we can from their
>experience.
>
>> For some organizations it makes sense to pool resources
>> / knowledge etc. across cities, and countries -
>> amnesty international, for example, or to a lesser extent, Green Peace.
>> But Freegeek doesn't look to me to be of these kinds.
>
>>From my point of view, it only makes sense to take advantage of what
>they have learned in Portland.
>
>Thanks for your thoughts Stephan, though I disagree, I've had to
>crystallize my thoughts to respond to yours,
>
>-- 
>sim
>_______________________________________________
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