[FreeGeek] Chatting with David Repa

[agent humble]

Hi folks,

Here is the transcript of a chat I had with David at few minutes ago.  I 
support the idea of using the name FreeGeek Vancouver for the incorporation 
of our society for the reasons that David outlined in his response to 
Stephan, over the weekend. In brief, I can't see that there's much to lose 
and there seems to be much to gain in helping spread this important meme and 
saving ourselves some of the work that they've already done.

Please note my idea that the society could assist in the creation of a 
parallel worker's co-op to provide services that fall outside the scope of 
FreeGeek. However, I don't consider this an immediate priority.

Scott 


(12:54:54 PM) Dave Repa: did you see stephans disagreement with joining 
freegeek-pdx?
(12:55:16 PM) obi-nine: yes... your response was spot on and i'll send a 
message to that effect later today
(12:55:56 PM) Dave Repa: scott I am having some reservations about boards
(12:56:06 PM) obi-nine: heh...
(12:56:11 PM) Dave Repa: I know they are required by law, and I'm not a big 
law fan
(12:56:24 PM) obi-nine: well... the alternative is a co-op
(12:56:52 PM) Dave Repa: can you briefly tell me more and can we get 
charitable status?
(12:57:12 PM) obi-nine: heh - i asked my partner that last night...
(12:57:37 PM) obi-nine: she's a corporate litigator so knows much more about 
corporations than societies 
(12:58:00 PM) obi-nine: generally there's much less known about co-ops because 
there are a lot fewer of them
(12:58:21 PM) obi-nine: but her answer was... "it should be possible"
(12:59:09 PM) obi-nine: legally it's all about which act you're governed by: 
the corporation's act, the societies act, or the cooperative's act
(01:00:18 PM) obi-nine: "the law" (therefore the gov, the banks, City Hall, 
etc.) understands societies and corporations best because they deal with them 
all the time
(01:01:22 PM) Dave Repa: interesting
(01:01:30 PM) Dave Repa: what's your take or feeling on this matter?
(01:02:09 PM) obi-nine: basically there are two kinds of co-ops - service 
co-ops which are about delivering a service to its members (eg. Vancity or 
MEC) and worker's co-ops which are about providing work to its members (eg. 
Mondragon?)
(01:02:50 PM) Dave Repa: yes mondragon is a workers co-op and for profit
(01:03:14 PM) Dave Repa: i just have the Cooperative Association Act up on my 
other screen..some light reading
(01:03:56 PM) obi-nine: one other note: the term "non-profit" is a misnomer... 
it's just a society and it doesn't serve shareholders or is expected to make 
a profit
(01:04:19 PM) Dave Repa: good point
(01:04:49 PM) obi-nine: i think we should incorporate as a society, run a 
smooth AGM and get things rolling
(01:05:17 PM) obi-nine: when we have some money we should help setup a 
parallel workers co-op
(01:05:49 PM) Dave Repa: hmm
(01:06:33 PM) obi-nine: the co-op could share our space (at least initially) 
but provide support services to those you can and are willing to pay
(01:06:47 PM) obi-nine: the other thing that we haven't talked about is 
members...
(01:06:53 PM) Dave Repa: i like the path of least resistance myself, I just 
don't want a divided board and staff
(01:07:14 PM) obi-nine: it absolutely sucks to have conflict between board and 
staff
(01:07:36 PM) obi-nine: in a smooth organization the staff have the full 
support of the board
(01:08:00 PM) Dave Repa: i almost would like to have a proxy board, but i know 
that is not the best idea either, remember I come from a different realm of 
experience
(01:08:37 PM) obi-nine: yeah... what you want is a fully supportive board
(01:08:57 PM) obi-nine: hold on a few mins.  - Tannis' dog is making me take 
her out ;-)
(01:10:49 PM) Dave Repa: well I was reading freegeeks by laws last night and 
just got drowned in jargon, it is really not my strong point
(01:29:06 PM) obi-nine: back...
(01:29:14 PM) Dave Repa: all right
(01:29:45 PM) obi-nine: did you get a sense from the freegeeks by-laws of what 
we want and what we don't?
(01:30:09 PM) obi-nine: i imagine they have taken a standard set of by-laws 
and then tweaked and added to that
(01:31:07 PM) Dave Repa: well I have never seen a "standard set of by laws" 
for any society so I was reading it with fresh eyes
(01:31:13 PM) obi-nine: heh
(01:32:06 PM) obi-nine: unless it's been drafted by lawyers usually you can 
see the plain english (added) and the legalese (standard)
(01:32:10 PM) Dave Repa: i suppose i would feel more comfortable if there was 
some soert of recourse or grievance procedure written in.. I didn't see that 
last night while reading it
(01:32:30 PM) obi-nine: what kind of recourse?
(01:33:08 PM) obi-nine: we're pretty much free to add anything we want as long 
as we realize that we're bound (legally, of course;) to follow our own 
by-laws
(01:34:37 PM) obi-nine: we can also change our by-laws but that requires the 
assent of the members- either at an AGM (usually) or through a special 
referendum
(01:35:11 PM) Dave Repa: well I'm not sure exactly what kind of recourse but 
something that protects the workers from a board gone astray
(01:35:45 PM) obi-nine: well... the board in turn is supposed to reflect the 
wishes of the members
(01:35:55 PM) Dave Repa: good point
(01:36:02 PM) obi-nine: they get voted in, or not, at the AGM
(01:36:14 PM) Dave Repa: who gets to vote?
(01:36:20 PM) obi-nine: any member
(01:36:30 PM) obi-nine: (as defined in the constitution)
(01:36:56 PM) obi-nine: I've been witness to several hostile takeover attempts 
at societies I've been part of... that deserves a beer of it's own ;-)
(01:38:27 PM) Dave Repa: i see so... does the constitution come into effect 
after the gov oks all the np paper work?
(01:38:38 PM) Dave Repa: the procedure is a little lost on me of what comes 
first
(01:39:43 PM) obi-nine: well... we can go ahead and register the society and 
list founding directors and register using the stock (the kit) articles of 
incorporation....
(01:40:30 PM) obi-nine: that allows us to get going - setup a bank account, 
start signing up members, etc.
(01:41:11 PM) obi-nine: then we can hammer out the articles (by-laws) that we 
want to have - which will take some time, believe me! ...
(01:41:21 PM) Dave Repa: ok ... well we first have to get past the small 
debate of who wants to go with freegeek
(01:41:31 PM) Dave Repa: we do have two people that have a problem with it
(01:41:46 PM) Dave Repa: well stephan mainly and steven from the meeting had a 
problem with the name
(01:42:22 PM) Dave Repa: we have not heard from the others yet on this point 
so I imagine they support it?
(01:42:27 PM) obi-nine: ahh.. has Steven piped up since 'cause i thought he 
was happy with the response he received at the meeting
(01:43:00 PM) obi-nine: people seem generally stoked to me
(01:43:02 PM) obi-nine: heh
(01:43:02 PM) Dave Repa: now that would be scary

[ snip - mailing list details ] 

(01:49:10 PM) Dave Repa: let's get everyone on board (ha) with the freegeek 
idea first and then move to the next step
(01:49:23 PM) obi-nine: not at all... I'm here to help set this thing up
(01:49:55 PM) Dave Repa: I know scott and your help is a friggen blessing it 
the only thing that let me sleep last night
(01:50:02 PM) obi-nine: it's important to keep in mind too, that people will 
come and go and we can't get too hung up on trying to please everyone 100%
(01:50:05 PM) Dave Repa: i've been having a bad case of anxiety this morning
(01:50:33 PM) obi-nine: heh - not used to not having a job to head off to? ;-)
(01:50:38 PM) Dave Repa: i think the drastic change in life patterns for me is 
going to take a bit
(01:51:04 PM) Dave Repa: I feel very responsible for making sure this works 
out right..that's not a bad thing just a new kind of pressure on myself
(01:52:06 PM) obi-nine: hey... that pressure is supposed to filter up to the 
board via the membership and then to you - not just come straight from you to 
you ;-)
(01:52:40 PM) Dave Repa: well I know that's how it is supposed to be..but 
right now this is how it feels and i know it will change