From iamlachance at gmail.com Wed Nov 1 11:12:55 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2006 11:12:55 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Terry Lowe Intro In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061026205113.01e52a98@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061026205113.01e52a98@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611011112x31f32befw1b1f7b49d07acd62@mail.gmail.com> wow a meeting! here are my deets then! my name is ifny. i've had my thumb in the activist pie for going on 25 years (i blame my parents) & i'm a bit of a jack of all trades (as well as a geek of many). here are some relevant details: -deep & abiding loathing for propietary software cartels. while i'm not a programmer by any means, i consider myself a sophisticated user, particularly as far as social/political implications & applications go. i'm somewhat versed in copyleft & freeware issues & IT history; i have a sincere desire to make freesoftware & operating systems more accessible to the general public, particularly DTES residents -20 yrs exp on computers, but not linux :( that will change :) i love my unix kernel, even though i haven't earned it! -committed community organizer. you can see my most recent project here: http://bicyclebee.blogspot.com -set up mailing lists/collaborative sites with user friendly interfaces such as yahoogroups & blogger both in canada & japan -developing a cycling community drupal site at the moment -i go to portland regularly. i'm good buddies with the reverend phil, master of ceremonies at FG portland. not only have i had the tour, but i've eaten there, slept there, & hung from the rafters there (literally! that was some party!). -raised lotsa cashola for refugees in japan -done PR, been a media fixer, organized rallies, press conferences & releases, written articles -involved in political actions (primarily social justice) in canada, japan, lebanon & iran. -have taught photography, language, computers & experimental music to adults & kids in the countries above -have experience in waste management, recycling, salvage. saved lots of computers from the waste stream. up till now they've mostly gone to the tech trash guys, but here's hoping they can end up in people's living rooms more often! -been wanting to help get a freegeek going in vancouver since i met it. brilliant thanks to you all for galvanizing this process!! i've been thinking about a FG internship since spring. i'm mobile enough at the moment that i might just talk myself into it. i'm going to portland nov 17-19 but i may stay looooonger.... can't wait to meet you, folks. i may come later in the evening as well, or early & leave early. i'm on the road at the moment, & i have the flu! ~!fny From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Wed Nov 1 23:26:07 2006 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Wed, 01 Nov 2006 23:26:07 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR Message-ID: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey for open source presentations and discussion. Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source ventures. Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: http://costar.sfu.ca/ Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic activist. Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the presentation? Best wishes everyone! Jack -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tlowe at shaw.ca Thu Nov 2 00:56:43 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 00:56:43 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Momentum Update (for the next issue) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Hi all, Here's what I wrote for a Momentum update. I think I got most of the points, although I did not mention the discussion about the name of the organization. I perhaps made it sound as if it's all David's operation (which isn't the case), but I needed something as a focal point, and that bit about the 13-year-old kid was too good not to use, plus David did give his contact info for publication. I'm not comfortable publishing people's home addresses, so I didn't do that. /* begin paste: FreeGeek Update Since the appearance of the article on FreeGeek Portland last issue ("Geek's Paradise in Portland", Momentum 24), things have been happening quickly here in YVR. Ten people showed up for a fledgling meeting at the Brickyard on Main Street. David Repa, one of the organizers (whose contact info appears below), quit his job to devote his energy to this venture. He told of how he wandered into the Portland facility, and how inspired he was by what he saw there. He told of a 13-year-old kid he saw who'd built his own computer, proudly named it, and was now helping seniors build their own machines. "Instead," David said, "of just playing Nintendo." Much discussion ensued. Five people volunteered for the nascent board of directors, so that the paperwork to establish a new non-profit can get underway; and we established a tentative date for the initial Annual General Meeting, and that will be sometime in mid-January, 2007. The group is currently looking for space and startup funding. It already has abundant energy and enthusiasm, and that will grow as more people join. Its immediate concern is to become self-sustaining. If and when that is achieved, the plan is: to start reusing as many of those perfectly good computers (that otherwise would have been thrown away) as possible; to make them available to people who need them but cannot afford them; to offer opportunities for education and training; to highlight the environmental aspects of removing tons of toxic waste from landfills, both here and overseas; and to promote the benefits of open-source software. If that sounds like something that would interest you, take a few minutes and look at the links below. Then, decide if you want to join. There is no local website up yet (coming soon), but there is a mailing list you can subscribe to at: https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van Or you can contact David Repa directly at 604 690-7372 iamturnip[at]gmail.com If you don't have a computer and cannot look at the links below, rest assured. We will soon be here for you to get one. Links: http://www.momentumplanet.ca/?q=node/154 www.freegeek.org end paste */ If there are any errors or objections, please let me know, but do so quickly. Thanks, Terry From iamturnip at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 01:11:05 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 01:11:05 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Meeting #2 Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611020111j395c8feds2f8a5db3106a30e8@mail.gmail.com> Hello Everyone, A big thanks to everyone who came out to the first meeting. All the amazing ideas and skills everyone brings with them is really promising. Kudos to Scott for suggesting the Brickhouse, what a sweet little spot. The purposed next meeting is Nov. 27(its a Monday). Why so far away? Well, the fact finding mission from Portland will have returned with more info to chew on. If this date is a problem for anyone please speak up. As we know there is a lot to talk and think about. I hope we can continue discussing some of the ideas we brought up in person here on this forum. I look forward to hearing from everyone and seeing you all again soon! -- David From iamlachance at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 01:54:30 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 01:54:30 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR In-Reply-To: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> References: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611020154t4009e3dawf8fe7510c6ac6170@mail.gmail.com> hello jack! the FG article is online at http://momentumplanet.ca/?q=node/154 ~!fny On 11/1/06, Jack Bates wrote: > Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! > > I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source > software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey > for open source presentations and discussion. > > Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML > processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with > patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source > ventures. > > Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: > http://costar.sfu.ca/ > > Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group > constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic > activist. > > Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could > give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the > FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal > issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. > > If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one > Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article > online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the > presentation? > > Best wishes everyone! Jack > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > > From iamlachance at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 02:09:23 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 02:09:23 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Momentum Update (for the next issue) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611020209v53aa65at4b25ca395b98a408@mail.gmail.com> one thing that springs to mind is that 6 people volunteered, not 5 (i volunteered too) you may want to note that the kid named his computer 'elbow' (nice deet!) let me just clean up the minutes & send them out in case they may be of use btw for the record who *is* on the board of directors? & what are we all doing awake? !fny On 11/2/06, Terry Lowe wrote: > Hi all, > > Here's what I wrote for a Momentum update. I think I got most of the points, > although I did not mention the discussion about the name of the organization. > > I perhaps made it sound as if it's all David's operation (which isn't the > case), but > I needed something as a focal point, and that bit about the 13-year-old kid > was > too good not to use, plus David did give his contact info for publication. > I'm not > comfortable publishing people's home addresses, so I didn't do that. > > /* begin paste: > > FreeGeek Update > > Since the appearance of the article on FreeGeek Portland last issue > ("Geek's Paradise in Portland", Momentum 24), things have been happening > quickly here in YVR. > > Ten people showed up for a fledgling meeting at the Brickyard on Main > Street. David Repa, one of the organizers (whose contact info appears > below), quit his job to devote his energy to this venture. He told of how > he wandered into the Portland facility, and how inspired he was by what he > saw there. He told of a 13-year-old kid he saw who'd built his own > computer, proudly named it, and was now helping seniors build their own > machines. "Instead," David said, "of just playing Nintendo." > > Much discussion ensued. Five people volunteered for the nascent board of > directors, so that the paperwork to establish a new non-profit can get > underway; and we established a tentative date for the initial Annual > General Meeting, and that will be sometime in mid-January, 2007. > > The group is currently looking for space and startup funding. It already > has abundant energy and enthusiasm, and that will grow as more people join. > Its immediate concern is to become self-sustaining. > > If and when that is achieved, the plan is: to start reusing as many of > those perfectly good computers (that otherwise would have been thrown away) > as possible; to make them available to people who need them but cannot > afford them; to offer opportunities for education and training; to > highlight the environmental aspects of removing tons of toxic waste from > landfills, both here and overseas; and to promote the benefits of > open-source software. > > If that sounds like something that would interest you, take a few minutes > and look at the links below. Then, decide if you want to join. There is no > local website up yet (coming soon), but there is a mailing list you can > subscribe to at: https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > Or you can contact David Repa directly at 604 690-7372 > iamturnip[at]gmail.com > > If you don't have a computer and cannot look at the links below, rest > assured. We will soon be here for you to get one. > > Links: > http://www.momentumplanet.ca/?q=node/154 > www.freegeek.org > > end paste */ > > If there are any errors or objections, please let me know, but do so quickly. > > Thanks, > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From iamturnip at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 06:50:02 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 06:50:02 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Momentum Update (for the next issue) In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611020650l5113151dqb0c5bf4721be648@mail.gmail.com> Terry, Nice article, correct me if I am wrong but I thought the name of the bar that we were at was the Brickhouse? The Brickyard is on Pacific Blvd... I think. -- David From iamturnip at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 07:02:44 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 07:02:44 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] board of directors - from notes Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611020702w71c1d801i509ed6fadf0da8bb@mail.gmail.com> Hello, ifny was asking who had volunteered for the duties of board and as my notes show it would be (I don't have all the last names, sorry) Scott Nelson, Steven( I have a bad feeling I'm spelling your name wrong!), Jack Bates, Vern, Sean Moffat, and ifny. If I have made a mistake please let me know. Perhaps if everyone would like to email me their full, or as much as they want to tell, contact info I could compile a list for future use. -- David From tlowe at shaw.ca Thu Nov 2 10:49:06 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 10:49:06 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Momentum Update (for the next issue) In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611020650l5113151dqb0c5bf4721be648@mail.gmail.com> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20061102004438.01e541f0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061102103011.01eb2110@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Hi David, You're right. Amy already caught that (I don't know what she was doing up at 4 AM, but that's when I got the message back). As per your earlier question about sending stuff to Momentum. Amy is always looking for new contributors, probably because there is NO money in working for Momentum. You sort of work with Momentum instead, rather, just because it's a good thing to do, and needs doing. It's run sort of like an open-source software project: first there's a meeting where possible topics are discussed, and Amy takes notes furiously. A few days later, she publishes a list of stories that need writers (there's a private Yahoo group for this). Pick one you want to do, take note of the deadline, and get busy. You can always propose a story, too. People frequently propose items that will allow them to vent at length (blog style). These are usually refused. Amy wants the magazine to be as useful as possible, for as many people as possible. This does not necessarily mean bike stories, hence the recipes, book reviews, the Free Geek article, etc. Why don't you send your story as a letter? There's going to be an article about the pros and cons of Critical Mass, so a road rage letter would be timely (or as timely as you can be on a bi-monthly schedule). Terry At 06:50 AM 11 02 2006, you wrote: >Terry, > >Nice article, correct me if I am wrong but I thought the name of the >bar that we were at was the Brickhouse? The Brickyard is on Pacific >Blvd... I think. > >-- >David >_______________________________________________ >http://freegeek.org >'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 10:56:49 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 10:56:49 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] minutes incomplete =o Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611021056u1dbc3f98mdc26c36c92bf77c6@mail.gmail.com> damn my flu made me fall asleep! i have to run off but here are the minutes that i've finished so far as i think people need them right away FIRST EVER MEETING - FREEGEEK (working title) IN VANCOUVER WED NOV 1 2006 important dates: david goes to portland nov. 11 ifny goes to portland nov. 16 next meeting: monday nov 27 location TBA first annual general meeting (AGM) 3rd week of january 2007 proposed kick-off: june 2007 supplementary dates: electric moon banana bike ride: sat nov.4, meet 10pm, ride 11pm http://electricmoonbananas.ca (the out-of-date page is sort of a ruse) -ride your bike with geeks & non-geeks. byob, reality hacking may ensue bicycle bee potlluck meeting sun nov. 5 at 5:00pm http://bicyclebee.blogspot.com -see consensus based friendly heavy-volunteer model in action, meeting address on website ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ THE FIRST ROUND: THE PACIFIC PUB, $2 PINTS OF NOT-GUINNESS introductions & a call for board members: to become a nonprofit, a board of directors is needed 5 people minimum needed to make an application subsequently we'd have our first annual general meeting (annual meetings are govt requirement) (obviously we'd want to meet more often) directors are not paid, are responsible for the activities of freegeek (yes legally) & establishing the philosophy, direction etc. then there is staff (paid) common for directors to become staff later, as they are familiar with inner workings it's also possible to run freegeek according to other models, co-op for example, collective? --govt definition of coop? collective? --description of board positions? --freegeek philosophy & more info on inner workings? YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURHOOD BOARD OF DIRECTORS IS NOW POPULATED BY: Scott Nelson, Steven, Jack Bates, Vern, Sean Moffat, and ifny. CHANGE OF SCENERY - TO THE BRICKHOUSE board/staff/volunteers could consider having once a year retreat dismantling parties data orgies (data share) david hopes to become the first paid staff member; as such he will not be on the board. he is going to portland from the 11th to the 19th will be spending most of that time at FG portland ifny is going to portland from the 16th to 20th. may stay longer to do an internship first priority: become a nonprofit 2nd priority: procure funding. let's all think of possible sources of funding 2.5 priority: find temporary storage space for hardware -pedal -vancity grants (gave vacc $27 grand, momentum magazine $10,000) email ideas for sources of $ to group & david will follow them up should we have a funding working group? other priorities: mission statement/concept structure space constitution possible (& inexhaustive) list of objectives: -promoting open source -recycling hardware/reusing/environmentalism/sustainability -supporting community -self sustaining -education/empowerment of disenfranchised/marginalized -e-waste -innovation - e.g. ipod linux -history project - museum, legacy, unique position to preserve -geek mecca -changing perceptions of hardware (e.g. obsolescence is not inevitable, rather often obsolescence by design) & software (open source etc evolves by nature & could be called more resourceful) -community space (geographically accessible to populations who need it most, multi-use, community institution) -profoundly involve cycling community (already happening) From sean at seanhill.ca Thu Nov 2 11:16:32 2006 From: sean at seanhill.ca (sean hill) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:16:32 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR In-Reply-To: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> References: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> Message-ID: <454A4410.3090206@seanhill.ca> Hey Jack, Is that course is generally open for audit if I just wanted to come and sit in? I'm not an SFU student (down at Langara right now) but I am studying software design specifically with an eye towards developing and supporting free/open source software. sean :o) Jack Bates wrote: > Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! > > I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source > software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey > for open source presentations and discussion. > > Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML > processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with > patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source > ventures. > > Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: > http://costar.sfu.ca/ > > Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group > constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic > activist. > > Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could > give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the > FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal > issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. > > If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one > Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article > online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the > presentation? > > Best wishes everyone! Jack > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sean at seanhill.ca Thu Nov 2 11:24:00 2006 From: sean at seanhill.ca (sean hill) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:24:00 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Meeting #2 In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611020111j395c8feds2f8a5db3106a30e8@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611020111j395c8feds2f8a5db3106a30e8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <454A45D0.1050008@seanhill.ca> Hi everyone, I was very inspired by FreeGeek Portland when I made my trip down at the beginning of the summer. Their operation is grand and impressive. It's now great to see so much enthusiasm for something similar in Vancouver. David, One thing I'd like to chirp in for on your fact mission is as much info as possible on the software systems they're using in Portland, specifically for testing and administration. ie) what publicly available packages/software are being used and what have they designed in house that they might make available to freegeek vancouver. sean :o) David Repa wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > A big thanks to everyone who came out to the first meeting. All the > amazing ideas and skills everyone brings with them is really > promising. Kudos to Scott for suggesting the Brickhouse, what a sweet > little spot. > > The purposed next meeting is Nov. 27(its a Monday). Why so far away? > Well, the fact finding mission from Portland will have returned with > more info to chew on. If this date is a problem for anyone please > speak up. > > As we know there is a lot to talk and think about. I hope we can > continue discussing some of the ideas we brought up in person here on > this forum. I look forward to hearing from everyone and seeing you > all again soon! > From stephan at buckmaster.ca Thu Nov 2 12:12:46 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (stephan at buckmaster.ca) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 12:12:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FreeGeek] Meeting #2 In-Reply-To: <454A45D0.1050008@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <20061102192737.534D15F8976@smtp.resist.ca> Hi everyone, I couldn't make it to the meeting yesterday, as much as I would have liked to. As a small introduction -- I'm a software developer; given free time of 1-5 hours I usually have no problem getting a processor to heat up and use up all kinds of ram and disk space using free math software and my own search algorithms. Just about a year ago I tried to set up shop to sell Linux machines; together with a partner I found through the Vancouver Linux User Group. We were pretty excited at the beginning, but found the interest close to zero. (We might not be experts at marketing but we put out a lot of posters and brochures) But freegeek is taking a different approach and I feel it is much more likely to make a difference. I'm hoping for a good location for the Vancouver Freegeek - as publically accessible as possible; maybe Commercial Drive. Three points: **** I thought three directors was enough to start a non-profit. **** I also thought that directors cannot also be paid staff. If a book would help I wouldn't mind buying one for the Freegeek. **** Something else I think would be good to decide on is the position with respect to free/ maybe not so free but it works software. For example, one can get a license to distribute MP3 players from http://www.fluendo.com/press/releases/PR-2005-05.html or see http://www.fluendo.com/press/releases/PR-2006-01.html for DVDs (This is about distribution not using it yourself) How does Portland deal with that? Cheers Stephan At Thu, 02 Nov 2006 11:24:00 -0800 , sean at seanhill.ca wrote: >Hi everyone, > >I was very inspired by FreeGeek Portland when I made my trip down at the >beginning of the summer. Their operation is grand and impressive. It's >now great to see so much enthusiasm for something similar in Vancouver. > >David, > >One thing I'd like to chirp in for on your fact mission is as much info >as possible on the software systems they're using in Portland, >specifically for testing and administration. > >ie) what publicly available packages/software are being used and what >have they designed in house that they might make available to freegeek >vancouver. > >sean :o) > > >David Repa wrote: >> Hello Everyone, >> >> A big thanks to everyone who came out to the first meeting. All the >> amazing ideas and skills everyone brings with them is really >> promising. Kudos to Scott for suggesting the Brickhouse, what a sweet >> little spot. >> >> The purposed next meeting is Nov. 27(its a Monday). Why so far away? >> Well, the fact finding mission from Portland will have returned with >> more info to chew on. If this date is a problem for anyone please >> speak up. >> >> As we know there is a lot to talk and think about. I hope we can >> continue discussing some of the ideas we brought up in person here on >> this forum. I look forward to hearing from everyone and seeing you >> all again soon! >> >_______________________________________________ >http://freegeek.org >'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From iamturnip at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 16:43:07 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:43:07 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Meeting #2 In-Reply-To: <20061102192737.534D15F8976@smtp.resist.ca> References: <454A45D0.1050008@seanhill.ca> <20061102192737.534D15F8976@smtp.resist.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611021643v4c0d7503x8ade07872cf35bae@mail.gmail.com> To clarify, > **** I thought three directors was enough to start a non-profit. Yes you are correct, however you do need five signatures for the application, that was my mix up. > **** I also thought that directors cannot also be paid staff. If a book would help I wouldn't mind buying one for the Freegeek. Yes you are correct about that. -- David From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Thu Nov 2 21:27:02 2006 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:27:02 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR In-Reply-To: <454A4410.3090206@seanhill.ca> References: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> <454A4410.3090206@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <1162531622.5822.341.camel@fis.lat> Certainly Sean! That's rad! What sort of projects are you interested in? Unfortunately I don't know the topic of tomorrow's session. We usually meet in Galleria 3260 at 3:30. It's in the skyscraper right at the Surrey Central SkyTrain station. Maybe see you there : ) Also, if you're free Sunday, come to my housing coop for dinner and chat about open source! Dinner is 5:30, Sunday through Thursday. We don't stand on ceremony, just come! If you can make it all the way to Columbia SkyTrain station, join us for free grub. Coop is at 609 Queens Ave, 5 mins straight up 6th St. from Columbia station. http://www3.telus.net/crca/ Regards! Jack On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 11:16 -0800, sean hill wrote: > Hey Jack, > > Is that course is generally open for audit if I just wanted to come > and sit in? I'm not an SFU student (down at Langara right now) but I > am studying software design specifically with an eye towards > developing and supporting free/open source software. > > sean :o) > > > Jack Bates wrote: > > Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! > > > > I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source > > software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey > > for open source presentations and discussion. > > > > Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML > > processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with > > patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source > > ventures. > > > > Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: > > http://costar.sfu.ca/ > > > > Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group > > constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic > > activist. > > > > Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could > > give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the > > FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal > > issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. > > > > If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one > > Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article > > online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the > > presentation? > > > > Best wishes everyone! Jack > > > > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From reallifesim at gmail.com Thu Nov 2 22:09:40 2006 From: reallifesim at gmail.com (sim) Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:09:40 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: <200610261820.08544.humble@resist.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0610261615m7ac1865ai54f9d63f3279ac1@mail.gmail.com> <200610261820.08544.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: Hello everyone, My name is Simeon Veldstra. I met many of you last night at the initial meeting. By day, I'm a construction foreman. I participate in what is essentially a high speed geologic process by organizing the transportation of quantities of earth around the Vancouver area. I'm just a bit younger than the personal computer and have been around them all my life.I've been writing programs for as long as I can remember. I've been paid to write software, but I've never worked as a programmer. I remember, as a boy, bugging my parents to buy me a C compiler. I had outgrown gwbasic and wanted to learn a real language. The tools back then were very limited, both in power and accessibility. In the late nineties, I discovered the Free Software Foundation with its General Public License and found out about Linux. Just out of high school and on a limited budget, I was able to set up a few second hand machines for myself with an OS that came with full build system included. The philosophy of the FSF had a profound effect on me, I chose Debian based on its constitution and principles (I will admit that the first machine I actually used as a desktop was installed from a Mandrake CD that came out of the back of a magazine) . Free software has come so very far in the past decade. The resources available to a kid interested in computers today are astounding. Free software is past the point of acceptance and is making progress in leaps and bounds. I've known David Repa for many years. Dave was the first person I introduced to Debian. Over the years we have built Debian systems for many of our friends at little to no cost. I've had the pleasure of seeing people with a wide range of skill and interest have successful experiences with open source. Some people like to drink beer and watch hockey. We are more likely to be found opening our beers with an old floppy drive while waiting for apt-get to retrieve packages. When Dave returned from Portland recently and told me about this place he had found, I got excited. This Freegeek place seemed to be an organization that had as its objective what we had for our hobby. We have been taking about it nonstop all month. Dave is a hardware guy. From his experience in the scrap industry he has an intuitive understanding of the logistics behind reducing a stream of waste to its recyclable constituents. I'm confident that he will be able to bring Freegeek Vancouver to the point of self sufficiency. As a software guy, I'm excited about the power found in further abstraction. By teaching Dave how to install Debian, I was able to decrease my workload, while increasing the total number of machines created. Spending energy on helping to get Freegeek started will result in many more systems built. Teaching people how to teach people makes a bigger difference. My personal interest lies in increasing the free code base. With that goal in mind, I see tremendous leverage in Freegeek. Chasing the abstraction further, beyond lumps of plastic and metal, I see Freegeek as a place that incubates hackers. A place where people become excited about free software and are provided with the resources to use it. Some of those people may progress to creating free software. If my energy can go towards creating new programmers, I'll never match the potential production by simply writing code myself instead. I would like to volunteer myself for the board of directors. I have quite a bit on my plate right now and can't commit definite, regular periods of time, but I will give as much time and provide David with as much support as I can; this is a very exciting idea. The first thing I'm interested in working on is putting together a presentation that we can take out on the road to spread the word and solicit support. -- sim From dustinharriman at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 11:15:39 2006 From: dustinharriman at gmail.com (Dustin Harriman) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:15:39 -0600 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: References: <8c0eafaa0610261615m7ac1865ai54f9d63f3279ac1@mail.gmail.com> <200610261820.08544.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <8f1791d20611031115r8ab10f9hcfb3add5850ad5e6@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, My name is Dustin Harriman. I have a degree in Computer Science and 5 years professional experience as a Unix Systems Administrator. I recently wrote an article about Freegeek appearing in Momentum Magazine, which is now featured on the front page of the Freegeek website. Dave contacted me recently after reading the article I wrote. It made my year to know that Freegeek Vancouver was going to be founded very soon. I've been an avid Linux fan for 11 years now, and I've installed Linux countless times for friends, family, and my employers on all kinds of hardware, from an embedded ARM board all the way up to very fancy and expensive enterprise hardware. I'm quite up to date with most mature, enterprise-level Open Source Software, including automated linux distro installers like FAI (which I highly recommend eventually learning and using on most or all computers that will be refurbished by Freegeek to save time). My favorite distro is currently Ubuntu (which I see is Freegeek Portland's also). I'm not much of a software developer but I'm good at automating things and gluing together other programs at the system level (using python or bash scripts). My command line kung foo is definitely "advanced". I've set up numerous OSS servers (email, web, DNS, automated backups, groupware, system monitoring, firewalls, etc), and I've devoted much time separating the wheat from the chaff when it comes to these kinds of systems, favoring systems that are relatively simple, cleanly designed, mature, and easy-to-maintain (which will all be important when possibly maintained by interchangeable volunteers). I'm a big fan of avoiding "NIH syndrome". I've unfortunately recently moved away from Vancouver, after quitting a Systems Administrator job with Business Objects Vancouver. I'm taking a sabbatical year to devote myself to meditating at a Buddhist monastery near Kamloops and give my whole computer geek act a much-needed rest. ;) This will limit my ability to participate in Freegeek Vancouver for now. I'm delighted to be on this mailing list none the less and lurk from the sidelines. If and when I ever move back to Vancouver, you'll all meet me very soon after and I'll very likely want to get deeply involved. Perhaps my technical knowhow and perspective will come in handy from time to time. That's what I can offer to your group for the time being (as well as my enthusiasm and support). Cheers, Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 "Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices" -Francis Moore Lapp? From dustinharriman at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 11:21:46 2006 From: dustinharriman at gmail.com (Dustin Harriman) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 13:21:46 -0600 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611020154t4009e3dawf8fe7510c6ac6170@mail.gmail.com> References: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> <3d895eaf0611020154t4009e3dawf8fe7510c6ac6170@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8f1791d20611031121r4308ace7nd0585d727b043b87@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jack, Pardon the tooting of my own horn, but Freegeek has also linked to the Momentum Magazine article below on the front page of their website. :) Cheers, Dustin On 11/2/06, ifny wrote: > hello jack! > > the FG article is online at http://momentumplanet.ca/?q=node/154 > > ~!fny > > > > On 11/1/06, Jack Bates wrote: > > Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! > > > > I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source > > software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey > > for open source presentations and discussion. > > > > Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML > > processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with > > patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source > > ventures. > > > > Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: > > http://costar.sfu.ca/ > > > > Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group > > constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic > > activist. > > > > Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could > > give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the > > FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal > > issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. > > > > If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one > > Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article > > online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the > > presentation? > > > > Best wishes everyone! Jack > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -- Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 "Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices" -Francis Moore Lapp? From iamturnip at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 17:45:45 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 17:45:45 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Job well.....Done! Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611031745t12f9870bh9500a481a118e180@mail.gmail.com> Hello, That is it, its over for me, no more working in the warehouse. The next warehouse I walk into will be the freegeek Vancouver one! I felt so much better walking out today after having met all of you folks on Wednesday night. Like I said at the meeting(and for those of you who were not there), please feel free to contact me at 604-690-7372. If anyone asks for a contact number for our freegeek project please feel free to pass this number on if you don't want to use yours or simpley don't have a phone. -- David From iamlachance at gmail.com Fri Nov 3 21:49:44 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 21:49:44 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] complete minutes, 1st meeting WED NOV 1/06 Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611032149l5e7c15e7gcb2ebd3fbf179b@mail.gmail.com> sorry i didn't get more of the side conversations that happened. i'm sure they were just as exciting as the ones i was having! also my notes may be incomplete. please add to this thread if there are points you remember that i've neglected. FIRST EVER MEETING - FREEGEEK (working title) IN VANCOUVER -- WED NOV 1 2006 STRATHCONA, VANCOUVER, CANADA IMPORTANT DATES: david goes to portland nov. 11 ifny goes to portland nov. 16 next meeting: monday nov 27 location TBA first annual general meeting (AGM) 3rd week of january 2007 possible proposed kick-off: june 2007 supplementary dates: electric moon banana bike ride: sat nov.4, meet 10pm, ride 11pm http://electricmoonbananas.ca (the out-of-date page is sort of a ruse) -ride your bike with geeks & non-geeks. byob, reality hacking may ensue bicycle bee potlluck meeting sun nov. 5 at 5:00pm http://bicyclebee.blogspot.com -see consensus based heavy-volunteer skillshare model in action 1624 franklin st., 2nd floor. it's a potluck, but don't let that stop ya. all friends of freegeek invited, even just to come & hang out for dinner! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ FIRST ROUND: THE PACIFIC PUB, $2 PINTS OF NOT-GUINNESS INTRODUCTIONS & A CALL FOR BOARD MEMBERS to become a nonprofit, a board of directors is needed 5 people minimum needed to make an application subsequently we'd have our first annual general meeting (annual meetings are govt requirement) (obviously we'd want to meet more often) directors are not paid (conflict of interest), are responsible for the activities of freegeek (yes legally) & establishing the philosophy, direction etc. then there is staff (paid) -common for directors to become staff later, as they are familiar with inner workings it's also possible to run freegeek according to other models, co-op for example, collective? --govt definition of coop? collective (if exists)? --description of board positions? --freegeek philosophy & more info on inner workings? <--david will provide this last QUORUM IS REACHED YOUR FRIENDLY NEIGHBOURHOOD BOARD OF DIRECTORS IS NOW POPULATED BY: Scott Nelson, Steven, Jack Bates, Vern, Sean Moffat, and Ifny. CHANGE OF SCENERY - TO THE BRICKHOUSE~~~~~~~ board/staff/volunteers could consider having: -once a year retreat -dismantling parties -data orgies (data share) DAVID CONFESSES what many suspected: he hopes to become the first paid staff member; he will therefore not sit on the board. he is going to portland from the 11th to the 19th will be spending that time at FG portland, fact-finding etc ifny going to portland nov. 16th to 20th. may stay longer to do an internship/do so on subsequent visits david & ifny both go to portland regularly & have strong connections there. PRIORITIES first priority: become a nonprofit 2nd priority: procure funding. let's all think of possible sources of funding. david will pursue 2.5 priority: find temporary storage space for hardware POSSIBLE SOURCES OF FUNDING/SUCCOR email ideas for sources of $ to group & david will follow them up -pedal http://pedalpower.org/ -vancity grants (gave vacc $27 grand, momentum magazine $10,000) https://www.vancity.com/MyCommunity/CommunityFunding/ -purple thistle (piggyback grants, have computer lab already, readymade source for volunteers) http://purplethistle.ca/ -pivot legal society http://pivotlegal.org/ (possible mutl-use space) -foundations? -workless party/velofusion ASSOCIATIONS WE MIGHT DO WELL TO CULTIVATE d.e.r.a. (downtown eastside residents' assn) http://www.vcn.bc.ca/dera/ apc (anti poverty committee) http://apc.resist.ca/ portland hotel society etc -->should we have a funding working group? OTHER PRIORITIES mission statement/concept structure space constitution website ON BEING NON-PROFIT registered nonprofit is different from having charitable tax status -- charitable tax status should be a long term goal -can issue tax receipts application/processing time takes 12-18months; involves audit etc. we should establish as a nonprofit -often startup groups partner with organizations who already have status we would then be able to do "flow throughs" sponsor org makes application on starting group's behalf vcn eg sponsor takes a cut -we need to be attractive to businesses so that they give us their old hardware what's the govt doing about pollution tax? we need to compete with tax benefits capital gains presently ppl who pick up waste get just as much benefit from its disposal (charge for the removal etc) recycling fees? pedal depot did a huge call out for used bikes on the north shore; expectations were greatly exceeded -- individuals delivered 400 bikes over 1 or 2 days. we could do the same, computer drive. possibly hardware less of a problem than storage space -focus on sustainability - could offer pick up service with bike trailers. new legislation goes into effect in june "Under a proposal to be voted on by district directors Friday, garbage disposal of waste electronics will be banned next August, coinciding with the launch of a provincewide electronics industry recycling program. "The industry program is being implemented province-by-province across Canada. The regional district's role will be to keep electronics out of the garbage and encourage residents to recycle them, Albert van Roodselaar, a GVRD planner, said Tuesday." [full article resubmitted to listserv at bottom] timing is very good for us. proposal for june freegeek kick off. media coverage will be high on this issue; we can piggyback. proposal for june: north shore computer drive + kick off + en masse bike/trailer hardware pickup on the north shore. freegeek portland offers non profits a hardware grant (sets em up with computers & tech support for free) eventually we could aim also to do non radical business outreach new computer always goes to the boss...now it's workers of the world upgrade! heh PROPOSED OBJECTIVES -promoting open source -recycling hardware/reusing/environmentalism/sustainability -supporting community -self sustaining -education/empowerment of disenfranchised/marginalized -e-waste -innovation - e.g. ipod linux, more efficient technologies (could be hardware, likely software) -history project - museum, legacy, unique position to preserve -geek mecca -changing perceptions of hardware (e.g. obsolescence is not inevitable, rather often obsolescence by design) & software (open source etc evolves by nature & could be called more resourceful) -community space (geographically accessible to populations who need it most, multi-use, community institution) -profoundly involve cycling community (already happening) davide has dvd great tour of freegeek by 13 year old kid -let's show it at velofusion (anza club) on the bigscreen, after critical mass bike ride (last friday of every month) WILL THAT BE NOV OR DEC? DOMAIN NAME freegeek.ca is taken; david emailed the owner, dion dion seems amenable to us using it; david will sound him out some more hopefully once dion recognizes that the project is really going ahead, he will give it to us, if we indeed want it DO WE WANT TO BE FREEGEEK OR SOMETHING ELSE? --> if we want to be an official freegeek, we must adhere to certain guidelines: nonprofit run by consesnsus board & staff opensource only --> if we want to be an official freegeek, we would need to adopt the name would we be freegeek vancouver? freegeek bc? bc freegeek? vancouver free geek? terminal city free geek? domain name: vancouverfreegeek.org? freegeekvancouver.org? freegeek.ca? freegeek.bc.ca? there will hopefully be more freegeeks in canada. while freegeek.org is the portland site, they are discussing what to do about new freegeeks' dns -->is freegeek an acceptable name or not? geek has negative connotations: exclusive, cliquish, intimidating, implies special knowledge, perverted, sexually deviant, sex slave we should avoid marketing to people like ourselves only, outreach is important. "freegeek" could turn people off. e.g. skiing lost significant numbers to snowboarding, partly because it marketed to an existing market rather exclusively in tennessee the freegeek startup does not feel able to use 'freegeek' name, because locally geek means something like pervert/pedophile; they are calling themselves an affiliate of freegeek conversely, meaning of "geek" seems to be going through a shift. geek shiek, hip to be square. meaning someone who is really into something. yoga for geeks/bike geeks. also reclaimance. e.g. freakbikes for choppers/art bikes. embracing the margin. we will be working with people who may never have graduated high school, or who may have literacy issues; therefore could be empowering for some folks to think of themselves as 'geeky.' discussion to be continued. A WORD ON CONSENSUS -different definitions & models -scott's indymedia example: when a decision is called, vote taken (only people present count). if any dissenters, one round all speak, then call for decison again, then 2nd round. after 3 times if there is still dissent the dissenters are overruled. -lead up to kananaskis/calgary g8 particularly contentious, didn't know who were cops etc. -ifny's g8 example, from lead-up in calgary. diverse group (pagans, anarchists, union members, students). most controversial issue was final march; some people wanted to bring their kids along, some people wanted to do material direct action/property damage. how to agree? 300 people negotiated & finally agreed with profound consensus. -another model: spartacus books collective -very action/initiative oriented. loose anarchic/mutual cooperative strategies. if someone wants to do event etc, just notifies the group. collective doesn't 'okay' people's initiatives; the only time consensus is sought is when someone objects. at that point a discussion is called, & only people present can work it out. if the objection remains strong, a sincere effort is made to come to an understanding, particularly if an unsatisfactory resolution could cause someone to leave the collective (i.e. the objector) . -david's freegeek portland example: you have to be a participant for 3 months or more to block an initiative. if more than 2 or 3 blocks than they revisit the item, acknowledging that obviously there valid concerns. let's discuss further how they operate -ifny's bicycle bee example (weekend of workshops, peer teaching, horozontally aligned, consensus based, variety of individuals/backgrounds/skill levels). certain conventions during meetings: no speakers list unless meeting particularly large or topic became heated/controversial. speakers list then written down by one person while another is responsible for spotting speakers. if someone hadn't yet spoken & wanted to, they jump the queue. also used hot pursuit (direct particular attention paid to metastructure of meetings/working spaces to reduce/eliminate intimidation, maximize fun, supportive env. & accessibility. next meeting of the bikebee: sun nov 5, 5pm. we will debrief re: our last event & discuss future directions. freegeekers are invited & it may prove informative to hear what we've learned. DEMOs online demos open cd - windows based cd that has everything open source - very user friendly beos (?) ubuntu build (also v.friendly) -- they send their disks out for free AT THIS POINT, THE NOTES GET SKETCHY in fact, it's where they stop. EPILOGUE - AT THE GAIN-WAH excited tired & starving, the last of the crew bandied noodles vegetables & chestnuts around the table till midnight. hurrah! here's to new exploits and breathing fire! !fny From stephan at buckmaster.ca Fri Nov 3 23:56:41 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (stephan at buckmaster.ca) Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2006 23:56:41 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FreeGeek] complete minutes, 1st meeting WED NOV 1/06 In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611032149l5e7c15e7gcb2ebd3fbf179b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061104071143.40EC95F8976@smtp.resist.ca> My take on funding: I would approach IBM (they have a local office). IBM funded a robotics event for women through UBC. My partner should be able to track down the IBM contact. I don't think they would mind funding freegeek. Does the group like that kind of funding? I think there would be more locally present "big companies". Also I would approach Google. Then there is the Vancouver Foundation, http://www.vancouverfoundation.bc.ca And probably a lot more...... See you Stephan PS. Cheers to David for the "last day". From iamlachance at gmail.com Sat Nov 4 09:10:23 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:10:23 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] proposals re: minutes Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> 2 proposals: 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the minutes! 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in portland. here is the description of that mailing list: "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." see the rest, as well as the archives, at http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo here are my reasons: -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to observe/learn from our process/development -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those considering starting a FG -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they learn from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than hierarchy. -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free software movement & foster trust. -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. thoughts? objections? ~!fny From dustinharriman at gmail.com Sat Nov 4 09:19:01 2006 From: dustinharriman at gmail.com (Dustin Harriman) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 11:19:01 -0600 Subject: [FreeGeek] complete minutes, 1st meeting WED NOV 1/06 In-Reply-To: <20061104071143.40EC95F8976@smtp.resist.ca> References: <3d895eaf0611032149l5e7c15e7gcb2ebd3fbf179b@mail.gmail.com> <20061104071143.40EC95F8976@smtp.resist.ca> Message-ID: <8f1791d20611040918q13da6c35tc9d5467ddd05d635@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, Here are my three cents about funding, sponsorship, and publicity: One possible source of funding might be Ubuntu themselves (ie. Canonical). If you are going to be installing Ubuntu on the Freekboxen you create, maybe you could get a tiny royalty per box or something, since you will be effectively acting as embassadors/marketers for Ubuntu. Mark ShuttleWorth is a very with-it, very rich guy who might actually dig an idea like that if pitched carefully. At least maybe you could get some nice Ubuntu swag or something (to be used in conjunction with promoting FreeGeek?). Since Ubuntu is much more a household name than Freegeek (or OS X for that matter, see http://www.google.com/trends?q=ubuntu%2C+os+x), you might want to carefully piggyback on that name recognition. I also think it would be wise to try to get Ubuntu to acknowledge Freegeek somehow in the News section of their website. This would introduce Freegeek to a much wider audience of pro-Ubuntu folks, attracting more local linux geeks to your cause (who may mave connections to more potential sponsors, cheap office space, etc), who will no doubt love to help you however they can. Also, announcing your efforts on the vanlug mailing list, or even making a well-polished 50-minute presentation at a Vanlug meeting will also attract more Vancouver pro-linux people to you. I also think it would be wise to post a "wishlist" on the web somewhere, like Freegeek Portland does. Then people will more easily find you, see your current needs, and contribute what they can: rackspace, office space, free legal advice, etc. PS: I agree approaching IBM would be a good idea for sponsorship. IBM is very pro-linux, and is pro-Ubuntu (they were basically the first corporate partner of Ubuntu with their certification of DB2 for use on Ubuntu). Yes, IBM is big and corporate, but they have lots of the thing you need to start: money. As long as you carefully stay away from any confining, ideal-compromising agreements with IBM, then why not go for it? BTW: writing a formal business case will no doubt be very helpful (if not essential) in securing funding from larger corporations like banks, etc. Cheers, Dustin Harriman My Blog: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/dustinharriman RSS Feed: http://ca.blog.360.yahoo.com/rss-RkGSoVA1brWtXrVH9Gr5CzgVujwwGg--?cq=1 "Freedom is not the capacity to do whatever we please; freedom is the capacity to make intelligent choices" -Francis Moore Lapp? From iamlachance at gmail.com Sat Nov 4 09:36:18 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 09:36:18 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free software, open source software definitions Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611040936x5aaf50fdta68e14f5d03aa312@mail.gmail.com> for any who may be unfamiliar with the distinction between the terms "open source software" and "free software," the following links should be helpful. THE FREE SOFTWARE DEFINITION http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html "Free software is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of free as in free speech, not as in free beer. "Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software: * The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). * The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this." WHY FREE SOFTWARE IS BETTER THAN OPEN SOURCE http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html "The fundamental difference between the two movements is in their values, their ways of looking at the world. For the Open Source movement, the issue of whether software should be open source is a practical question, not an ethical one. As one person put it, ``Open source is a development methodology; free software is a social movement.'' For the Open Source movement, non-free software is a suboptimal solution. For the Free Software movement, non-free software is a social problem and free software is the solution." the free beer thing makes a lot of sense. i like thinking comparing open source to a vegetarian who eats eggs (and maybe even...fish...). ~!fny From pseudo_intellectual at yahoo.com Sat Nov 4 14:05:00 2006 From: pseudo_intellectual at yahoo.com (_Rowan Lipkovits) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 14:05:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FreeGeek] a few words of introduction Message-ID: <20061104220500.64229.qmail@web54613.mail.yahoo.com> * was pointed this way by rusl; have spent a long time on the portland freegeek periphery due to the involvement of numerous friends there. * still tentative about taking a huge role in any organization following two years of endless, hopeless meetings at the doomed butchershop floor gallery -- however I am interested in helping however I can (likely more on the grunt end of things) and should have time to spare to do so. * Abstractly appreciate the ideals of free + open source software, but am not so abreast as to have favourite flavours and distributions. * Love to see old technology (hardware, software) pressed into useful service once again; I maintain a certain preoccupation with certain elements of defunct (MS-DOS-era) computing (old games, ANSI art, dial-up BBS software) * Might recommend sending a Van Freegeek representative to the monthly Vancouver 2600 meeting, + those of various user groups (http://www.vanlug.bc.ca/ for instance) to see if any additional interest can be drummed up or word passed along. Will keep lurking, hopefully to turn out at the next meeting. Cheers! ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates (http://voice.yahoo.com) From iamlachance at gmail.com Sat Nov 4 18:49:41 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 18:49:41 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.com> David, Simeon & Ifny sat around over moogie-cha & coffee & couldn't stay away from the Geek discussion. Here's what we came up with. We propose that we now undertake to determine our affiliation status with Free Geek Portland. David will depart for his fact finding mission on the 11th. How about we make a dedicated effort to arrive at consensus on this question before his departure? We would like to see an affilliation with Free Geek Portland as a full organization (aka franchise). To do that, they require that we adhere to these principles: Free Geek Fair Use Principles http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Principles An organization that would be affiliated with Free Geek must: 1. Have a mission that is similar to and does not contradict the Free Geek Mission Statement. http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Mission_Statement 2. Dispose of equipment in an ethical and environmentally responsible manner. 3. Use Free/Open Source Software wherever possible and must promote the Free Software philosophy in other ways, such as transparent collaboration with others. 4. Provide low- and no-cost computer technology and training to their community. An organization that would use the Free Geek name must additionally: 1. Be democratically run in a non-hierarchical way that is open and transparent to all participants in its programs. 2. Be a non-profit business (as legally defined in their location) and must follow honest business practices and have the stated goal of advancing the common good. If we can agree that these principles are in line with our collective objectives, we can then proceed to partner with the Geek. The name question can then take place. If we don't use the Free Geek name, we would only be allowed to be an affiliate. Therefore, please forumlate your responses to 2 questions: 1. Would you like to see us be a full franchise partner with Free Geek, including using the name Free Geek Vancouver? Note: "Free Geek Vancouver" follows the convention of the overwhelming majority of extant FG franchise partners in the US. Feel free to include your reasons for agreement. 2. If not, what alternative would you propose? Please describe the basis of your objections. Why the urgency? We need a name to begin filing the paperwork for nonprofit status. For example, we need to register our name & establish with the city that it's not being used already. Also, public statements, info, & website materials need to be marshalled. We need to begin to assemble a public face. Go team! From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sat Nov 4 20:32:24 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2006 20:32:24 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] SFU COSTAR In-Reply-To: <1162531622.5822.341.camel@fis.lat> References: <1162452367.5822.314.camel@fis.lat> <454A4410.3090206@seanhill.ca> <1162531622.5822.341.camel@fis.lat> Message-ID: <454D6958.1000801@seanhill.ca> Actually, I'm having a tough time narrowing down my interests to one app or even type of software. I've got lots of ideas floating around in my head, but school has been taking most of my focus for a bit. The next 2 weekends are a little hectic, but I think I'll be around on the weekend of the 17th-19th. Perhaps then... I think it'll be good to get in contact with more people who are participating in free software projects to help myself get a feel for the types of things that interest me and that I can contribute to. :o) Jack Bates wrote: > Certainly Sean! That's rad! What sort of projects are you interested in? > > Unfortunately I don't know the topic of tomorrow's session. We usually > meet in Galleria 3260 at 3:30. It's in the skyscraper right at the > Surrey Central SkyTrain station. Maybe see you there : ) > > Also, if you're free Sunday, come to my housing coop for dinner and chat > about open source! Dinner is 5:30, Sunday through Thursday. We don't > stand on ceremony, just come! If you can make it all the way to Columbia > SkyTrain station, join us for free grub. Coop is at 609 Queens Ave, 5 > mins straight up 6th St. from Columbia station. > http://www3.telus.net/crca/ > > Regards! Jack > > On Thu, 2006-11-02 at 11:16 -0800, sean hill wrote: > >> Hey Jack, >> >> Is that course is generally open for audit if I just wanted to come >> and sit in? I'm not an SFU student (down at Langara right now) but I >> am studying software design specifically with an eye towards >> developing and supporting free/open source software. >> >> sean :o) >> >> >> Jack Bates wrote: >> >>> Jack here, nice to meet you all tonight! >>> >>> I'm taking a special research topics course to develop open source >>> software at SFU with Prof. Rob Cameron. We meet on Fridays at SFU Surrey >>> for open source presentations and discussion. >>> >>> Prof. Cameron is founding a company to develop his high speed SIMD XML >>> processing research under open source licenses. He's collaborating with >>> patent lawyers at IBM and the FSF, so he's interested in open source >>> ventures. >>> >>> Prof. Cameron is also starting COSTAR, an open source lab at SFU: >>> http://costar.sfu.ca/ >>> >>> Finally, Prof. Cameron worked on the BC Public Interest Research Group >>> constitution when it was written in the 70s? 80s? So a sympathetic >>> activist. >>> >>> Would be really rad if Scott, David, and folks who can make it could >>> give a presentation sometime this semester. Perhaps we could show the >>> FreeGeek video, talk about experiences at FreeGeek, talk about legal >>> issues related to organizing technology in public interest, etc. >>> >>> If you could make it to SFU (Surrey Central SkyTrain station) 3:30 one >>> Friday in November, I'll let Prof. Cameron know. Is the Momentum article >>> online? Perhaps we could link to it in the announcement/abstract of the >>> presentation? >>> >>> Best wishes everyone! Jack >>> >>> >>> ____________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://freegeek.org >>> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://freegeek.org >> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://freegeek.org >> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From reallifesim at gmail.com Sat Nov 4 21:07:41 2006 From: reallifesim at gmail.com (sim) Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2006 22:07:41 -0700 Subject: [FreeGeek] free software, open source software definitions In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611040936x5aaf50fdta68e14f5d03aa312@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040936x5aaf50fdta68e14f5d03aa312@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: > http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-software-for-freedom.html > > "The fundamental difference between the two movements is in their > values, their ways of looking at the world. For the Open Source > movement, the issue of whether software should be open source is a > practical question, not an ethical one. As one person put it, ``Open > source is a development methodology; free software is a social > movement.'' For the Open Source movement, non-free software is a > suboptimal solution. For the Free Software movement, non-free software > is a social problem and free software is the solution." > > > the free beer thing makes a lot of sense. i like thinking comparing > open source to a vegetarian who eats eggs (and maybe even...fish...). Vegetarianism is an apt comparison. There are many different software licenses each with a different motivation. A radical free license, like the GPL, that requires the source remain available, is a viral tool crafted by people who believe all software should be free. The GPL prevents the software from ever becoming closed source. This is sort of like a vegan who believes it is wrong to take life and won't eat eggs or fish or install FlashPlayer. A license like the Berkley license is more pragmatic, it basically stated is: do whatever, no warranty. It tends to be used by people just seeking to create great software by pragmatically enlisting users help. This would be more like the pragmatic vegetarian who abstains from meat because of the economic and environmental impacts of raising animals intensively in cages and feedlots. With software, when one person makes an improvement, every user can benefit from it for the cost of transferring the update over the network. If you want to use the best software, the smartest thing to do is share the code with everyone in the hope that someone will send you an improved version. Just as with vegetarianism, many other motivations and combinations are found many other licenses. All promote the idea of free software in some form. The various facets of the free software movement have together created an immense body of work over the past two decades. By working together openly with no central management or leader, programmers worldwide have created an amazing system. It is an amazing gift and one of the implicit terms of use is that you try and find a way to give something back to the community. There are many ways to contribute. People write documentation, help with installs, answer questions, send bug reports, organize meetings, employ programmers and much more. The Portland Freegeek contributes to the free software movement in many ways: By reducing the environmental impact of our computer use. Who needs KDE when you have cancer? By distributing systems installed with free software, increasing the user base. By providing a safe and stable space for people to work and learn. Imagine hacking drivers in a warehouse full of any imaginable part! You can't give hardware away to everyone for free like you can with software, but Freegeek makes technology available locally to everyone affordably and grants it in places it will make the most difference. Freegeek Portland's third principle is: Use Free/Open Source Software wherever possible and must promote the Free Software philosophy in other ways, such as transparent collaboration with others. -- sim From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Sun Nov 5 10:32:35 2006 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 10:32:35 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162751556.1071.21.camel@fis.lat> On Sat, 2006-11-04 at 18:49 -0800, ifny wrote: > Therefore, please forumlate your responses to 2 questions: > 1. Would you like to see us be a full franchise partner with Free > Geek, including using the name Free Geek Vancouver? Note: "Free Geek > Vancouver" follows the convention of the overwhelming majority of > extant FG franchise partners in the US. Feel free to include your > reasons for agreement. I'd totally like to affiliate with FreeGeek. The principles are sound and i'd like to take as much as possible fromt their success. > 2. If not, what alternative would you propose? Please describe the > basis of your objections. > > Why the urgency? We need a name to begin filing the paperwork for > nonprofit status. For example, we need to register our name & > establish with the city that it's not being used already. Also, public > statements, info, & website materials need to be marshalled. We need > to begin to assemble a public face. > > Go team! > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tlowe at shaw.ca Sun Nov 5 11:45:54 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 11:45:54 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> My $0.02 worth: The full franchise with FreeGeek in Portland gets my vote, along with the name FreeGeek Vancouver. My reason is the same as Jack's: the principles are sound, and we can get a lot of helpful advice from those who have gone before, ie best practices, what works, what doesn't (probably more important), and so forth. Terry >Therefore, please forumlate your responses to 2 questions: >1. Would you like to see us be a full franchise partner with Free >Geek, including using the name Free Geek Vancouver? Note: "Free Geek >Vancouver" follows the convention of the overwhelming majority of >extant FG franchise partners in the US. Feel free to include your >reasons for agreement. >2. If not, what alternative would you propose? Please describe the >basis of your objections. From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 12:36:53 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:36:53 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] mailing list Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611051236q4c9de985i7b191ae13a62f8e9@mail.gmail.com> afternoon all i'd just like to encourage contributions from everyone out there, even if you weren't at the first meeting. if you're lurking at the moment, & don't know how you would be involved in the organization, but maybe are just curious, i daresay even excited, you should still feel free to say hi! send us an introduction, or maybe just why you like freegeek. it's nice to know who's out there supporting our endeavour. if you'd like to access the archives, visit https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/freegeek-van/ ALSO: let's try to keep things on appropriate threads okay? & if you wanna start a new topic, please start a new thread. this'll all make the archive more navigable for new members. !fny From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 12:41:25 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 12:41:25 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG portland? i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha thinkin. i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: > 2 proposals: > > 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the minutes! > > > 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider > allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in > portland. > > here is the description of that mailing list: > > "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? > This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about > their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your > area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." > > see the rest, as well as the archives, at > http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup > > you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other > mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo > > > here are my reasons: > > -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to > observe/learn from our process/development > > -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those > considering starting a FG > > -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup > experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they learn > from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than > hierarchy. > > -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free > software movement & foster trust. > > -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, > then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we > shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that > FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to > vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper > feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. > > -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to > understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to > > -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise > we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our > mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. > > > thoughts? objections? > > ~!fny > From stephan at buckmaster.ca Sun Nov 5 12:40:35 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (Stephan Wehner) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 12:40:35 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <454E4C43.7050404@buckmaster.ca> I don't think its a good idea to become a subsidiary of the Portland Freegeek -- without even looking at the Portland Freegeek. For one, the more or less frequent visits to Portland bother me, and would likely increase. (See my book trafficlife.com) (Flying - even worse) On the other hand, I'm not sure how much knowledge is transferable. Different populations, different geography, after all. How much of this is just pure work and effort. And how much of the information would be available without being actually affiliated. Last, would we have a Portland society asking for local support? (Vancity for example?) I think between a Portland society, and one based in Vancouver, Vancity or any other supporter we look up here, would prefer to donate to the one based in Vancouver. At least in my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to run a shop or two and recycle computers, teach something here and there. For some organizations it makes sense to pool resources / knowledge etc. across cities, and countries - amnesty international, for example, or to a lesser extent, Green Peace. But Freegeek doesn't look to me to be of these kinds. Cheers, Stephan Terry Lowe wrote: > My $0.02 worth: > > The full franchise with FreeGeek in Portland gets my vote, along with > the name FreeGeek Vancouver. My reason is the same as Jack's: > the principles are sound, and we can get a lot of helpful advice from > those who have gone before, ie best practices, what works, what > doesn't (probably more important), and so forth. > > Terry > >> Therefore, please forumlate your responses to 2 questions: >> 1. Would you like to see us be a full franchise partner with Free >> Geek, including using the name Free Geek Vancouver? Note: "Free Geek >> Vancouver" follows the convention of the overwhelming majority of >> extant FG franchise partners in the US. Feel free to include your >> reasons for agreement. >> 2. If not, what alternative would you propose? Please describe the >> basis of your objections. > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 13:30:49 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:30:49 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] bicycle bee potluck & consensus demo Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611051330p6d6a974cg69f72db055ff7b29@mail.gmail.com> just a reminder that you're all welcome to come to the bicycle bee potluck meeting, tonight from 5pm onward (no problem if you need to come late!). http://bicyclebee.blogspot.com i hope we can transfer the lessons/strengths of the bee over to our FG styled endeavor. there are many affinities. it was consensus based, non-hierarchical, & was an event where there was a huge difference in skill levels. we offered a supportive, accessible space for people who were intimidated and/or had had negative experiences in the past, either because of cool-factor/cliques, insensitive experts or perceived roles (e.g. girls don't play with tools). it was also a process where everyone was encouraged to learn-as-they-went, & try new things & play. attention was given to supporting risk-taking. it also had a social aspect, making new connections & reinvigorating existing communities. in general, i believe firmly that everyone brings things to the table. unfortunately we're trained to defer to experts & authority figures (apparently they've stopped learning), or people who have precedence (apparently timing is everything). deferral usually means that potential for participation / diversity / innovation / interactivity is wasted. waste bothers me, in any context. the bee was designed with these, (& lotsa other things) in mind. (btw lots of this stuff has crystallized in retrospect, through its development. the weekend worked out pretty much as we'd hoped, & yet hadn't exactly known was possible) : how do we let people know they are valuable? how do we undo damage caused by exclusion? how do we make a good learning environment? how do we encourage people to participate, & have fun doing it? how do we do this in a way that is natural & fun & subversive, for us too? i'm very proud of what we did. not just the weekend itself, but in the precedent we set, & the effect on the community. we learned just as much through our planning potlucks as anything else, just as we intended to. the last bikebee was the first of many. too much fun, & too subversive not to repeat! please join us for dinner & a listen. we'll eat, talk about the last bee, & future directions. our meetings are always open to everyone, whether you're bringing food, thoughts, or just yourself! !fny http://bicyclebee.blogspot.com good ole potluck meeting+debrief SUNDAY NOV 5, 5:00pm ALL ARE WELCOME the chair factory, 2nd floor, 1624 franklin st. (betw commerical & woodland, 1 blk north of hastings.) http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=1624+franklin+street,+vancouver+bc&ie=UTF8&z=15&om=1&iwloc=A From reallifesim at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 13:54:00 2006 From: reallifesim at gmail.com (sim) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 13:54:00 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 11/5/06, ifny wrote: > is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG portland? > > i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha thinkin. > > i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are > objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. > > if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. I'm all for it. We are not likely to get anything other than good advice from the Portland people. The minutes are accessible from the archives anyway so it's nothing they couldn't find by looking. I think it is important to develop a good relationship with Portland, keeping them up to date on our activities will only help. -- sim From iamturnip at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 15:31:46 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 15:31:46 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <454E4C43.7050404@buckmaster.ca> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> <454E4C43.7050404@buckmaster.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611051531h4aa2e3d2w3fd6f7d48ef1ea74@mail.gmail.com> Stephan, > I don't think its a good idea to become a subsidiary of the Portland > Freegeek -- without even looking at the Portland Freegeek. I respect your opinion in this matter, but would like to address some points that you have made. First, some of us involved already have looked into or been to Freegeek Portland(PDX). I encourage anyone who hasn't looked into their wiki to do so, it is rather extensive. ( http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Main_Page ) The affiliation or franchise we would like to seek with FG-PDX is not the same as a subsidiary. In the end, to franchise with FG-PDX is to have the ability to use the name FreeGeek, and to make the community grow larger. To FG-PDX this franchise process "...ensures that new Free Geeks actually understand what "Free Geek" means, and that they're involved in the larger Free Geek community. We also want to help ensure that new startups have a feasible startup plan." ( taken from http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Startup_Franchise_Application ) > For one, the more or less frequent visits to Portland bother me, and > would likely increase. > (See my book trafficlife.com) (Flying - even worse) In my opinion an affiliation with FG-PDX does not require frequent trips, or any trips to Portland. I don't imagine FG-Chicago can afford frequent trips out there, nor would FG in Pennsylvania. All of the application process is done, or can be done electronically. I agree that increased traffic is a bad thing, especially flying. I personally do not fly for similar reasons. It is true that I am going to Portland this coming weekend. The reason for this trip is not out of necessity but because I have many friends in Portland, and want to spend time with the excellent folks at Freegeek. I do this because I do not see my self being able to go down to Portland for a while after things getting rolling up here. I still don't know how I am getting there since I don't own a car. I think it is important to be mindful of how we go about our business, after all reducing our impact on the environment is an important aspect of Freegeek. If we ever had to come to the decision of having a company truck I would be against it. Scott had a cool idea about bicycle pick ups for donations, and Aaron was telling me his vision of "bicycle stage coaches"! > On the other hand, I'm not sure how much knowledge is transferable. > Different populations, different geography, > after all. How much of this is just pure work and effort. And how much > of the information would be available > without being actually affiliated. I believe most of the information would be available to us without being affiliated because that is the spirit of open source. The exciting nature of computers and open source is the very fact that it brings different populations, and people from different geography together. > Last, would we have a Portland society asking for local support? In the documentation that I have read, I have not come across any mention of a finical tie between Freegeek franchises. > At least in my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to run a shop or two and > recycle computers, teach something > here and there. In my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to design a structure that allows for recycling and re-using computer technology, while teaching people useful skills and promoting open source software. I believe this cannot be done in a here and there manner. Recycling is an extremely important aspect of this endeavour, and the technical end of recycling requires a lot of thought and organising, which FG-PDX has already done, and which we are proposing to adopt and hopefully contribute to. I believe that using the name FreeGeek, and thus affiliating with the original "mothership" is a way of paying respect to their work. I think of it this way - my favorite distro is Debian, I use it day in and day out, and I would never want to change the name or call it something different, as I am paying respect to the folks who originally put it together, even though it grows now through the contributions of other people. -- David From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Sun Nov 5 15:57:30 2006 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Sun, 05 Nov 2006 15:57:30 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1162771050.1071.32.camel@fis.lat> On Sun, 2006-11-05 at 12:41 -0800, ifny wrote: > is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG portland? > > i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha thinkin. > > i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are > objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. > > if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. great ifny - no objections here! sounds wholesomely open and transparent : ) jack > On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: > > 2 proposals: > > > > 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the minutes! > > > > > > 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider > > allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in > > portland. > > > > here is the description of that mailing list: > > > > "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? > > This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about > > their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your > > area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." > > > > see the rest, as well as the archives, at > > http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup > > > > you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other > > mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo > > > > > > here are my reasons: > > > > -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to > > observe/learn from our process/development > > > > -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those > > considering starting a FG > > > > -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup > > experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they learn > > from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than > > hierarchy. > > > > -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free > > software movement & foster trust. > > > > -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, > > then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we > > shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that > > FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to > > vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper > > feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. > > > > -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to > > understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to > > > > -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise > > we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our > > mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. > > > > > > thoughts? objections? > > > > ~!fny > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From reallifesim at gmail.com Sun Nov 5 16:02:42 2006 From: reallifesim at gmail.com (sim) Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:02:42 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061105114009.01e4b0d0@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: Stephan's post didn't arrive here, I've copied it from the archives: > I don't think its a good idea to become a subsidiary of the Portland > Freegeek -- without even looking at the Portland Freegeek. I think it is a mistake to discount Portland without any consideration. Freegeek Portland has had six years of success doing what we are proposing to start doing here. Many of the problems we will surely face have been solved already in Portland. Discounting Portland's experience will cost us a great deal of extra work and quite likely cause us to make some of the same mistakes again. To be clear, what we are proposing is affiliate status, not subsidiary. My understanding is we wish to become an independent organization based on the Portland model. Meeting Portland's criteria for affiliation means that we can tell potential sponsors that we are following a proven model and have been audited by a successful organization and have received it's blessing. This would be a tremendous boon to our credibility and would also allow us to use the trademarked (and well known) Freegeek name. > For one, the more or less frequent visits to Portland bother me, and > would likely increase. > (See my book trafficlife.com) (Flying - even worse) I appreciate your position on vehicle use. I too am dismayed at our current vehicle culture. From suburban sprawl to the SUV arms race, the system is clearly broken. I do my part to try and make a difference. I have never owned a car, I've put tens of thousands of kilometers on bicycles instead. I choose to live close to where I work (or work close to where I live). I walk to the grocery store. I also drive a work truck about a thousand kilometers a week. It has a six litre V8 that burns hundreds of litres of fuel a week and is big and heavy enough to kill should I crash it. I could not do my job without the truck and as gross as it is, it would take more resources to transport what the truck can haul any other way. The projects I work on include dense urban housing developments and rapid transit. The people who live in the buildings I help create don't need to drive and many of them don't own cars. I'm proud to be a part of the Canada Line project. Before I got the work truck I had a bus pass. I took transit to sites all over the lower mainland for work. The Canada line will make commuting by transit better and faster for many people. A direct result of me driving an obscenely large vehicle is fewer vehicles on the road in the future. If a few trips to Portland can help save a few thousand tonnes of junk from being shipped to China that is a win. A 40 tonne container travelling 10,000km makes a trip to Portland look like a trip to the corner store. Never mind what happens to all that toxic crap overseas. Travel to other cities does have an environmental cost, even if you ride a bike, but it is still worthwhile. Travel opens new horizons and exposes people to different cultures and ideas. Staying in the same place your whole life is a great way to develop a xenophobic worldview. > On the other hand, I'm not sure how much knowledge is transferable. > Different populations, different geography, > after all. How much of this is just pure work and effort. And how much > of the information would be available > without being actually affiliated. Well, as far as lessons learned in Portland, their wiki has a good page on the history and progression of Freegeek Portland: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Meta_Question That page also explains that Freegeek's growth has occurred largely in response to crises. The wiki page explains the crises and what happened, what their response was and what it led to. Just one of the things I learned from that page is that a thrift store can be a very effective way of covering operating costs. >From 1500 or so words I can glean hints like that. I know that a weekend in Portland and a few PBRs with Revphil will gain me far more insight than reading the wiki pages that folks down there have found the time to put together. The Portland folks would probably be more inclined to help if we sought affiliate status. Maybe not, but I know that I would be. I would encourage you to have a good look around the Portand wiki. If you still feel we have little to learn from the Portland experience after looking into it for yourself then I would love to hear your arguments. > Last, would we have a Portland society asking for local support? > (Vancity for example?) I think between > a Portland society, and one based in Vancouver, Vancity or any other > supporter we look up here, would > prefer to donate to the one based in Vancouver. I don't think we are proposing a financial or organizational union. I doubt Freegeek Portland would be willing to enter into one. It is a franchise. By giving us their name, they are asserting that we are following a model that is acceptable to them and has been proven to work in the past. The accounts, sales, donations and operations are independent. This is not to say that we would never give or receive assistance, but there is no obligation. There is no mention of a fee in the Portland wiki, but as they would be using staff time to help us it would not be unreasonable to charge one. The credibility affiliation would lend us should only help us in seeking support from our community. Vancity would be more likely to fund a project that has been successful in other places. > At least in my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to run a shop or two and > recycle computers, teach something > here and there. My vision is a number of programs: 1) An adoption program to reuse old machines and teach people how to use them. 2) A build program to create machines for adoption and teach people how to build machines. 3) A recycling program to get toxic shit off of the street. 4) A systems program to create and refine the software system installed on the reused machines. (This sounds easy, but becomes a pretty hard problem at big scales.) 5) A introspective meta program to find ways to improve the other programs. It took Portland years to refine their programs. It would be negligent to ignore the knowledge base available in Portland. This is the sort of negligence that gets directors of corporations sued. If all we wanted to do was set up in some garage somewhere and play around with junk then we could safely ignore Portland. If we want to build a sustainable organization we must learn what we can from their experience. > For some organizations it makes sense to pool resources > / knowledge etc. across cities, and countries - > amnesty international, for example, or to a lesser extent, Green Peace. > But Freegeek doesn't look to me to be of these kinds. >From my point of view, it only makes sense to take advantage of what they have learned in Portland. Thanks for your thoughts Stephan, though I disagree, I've had to crystallize my thoughts to respond to yours, -- sim From tlowe at shaw.ca Mon Nov 6 11:26:29 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 11:26:29 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Some missing emails... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061106112156.01e4de90@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Hi all, I ran into Steve in the local coffee shop yesterday, and he told me that he hasn't received any emails from this list, even though he did sign up for it. Vern just now told the same. So I think something is not working in the sign-up process (didn't work for them anyway). Steve is sadchuk at hotmail.com, and Vern is vbusch at shaw.ca - could whoever maintains the list add them, please? Thanks, Terry From humble at resist.ca Mon Nov 6 14:11:15 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:11:15 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Some missing emails... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061106112156.01e4de90@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061106112156.01e4de90@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <200611061411.15479.humble@resist.ca> Hi there, I've added them manually although it claimed that Vern is already a member so perhaps he sorted it out. Hopefully they are now on the list. As you know, e-mail is a terribly uncertain communications medium. Members should check their spam filter for false positives and whitelist this address if they can. If they continue to have difficulties they may consider getting a resist.ca mail account for use with this list (at least until we get our own domain and can give out our own webmail accounts). Scott On Monday 06 November 2006 11:26 am, Terry Lowe wrote: > Hi all, > > I ran into Steve in the local coffee shop yesterday, and he told me that he > hasn't received any emails from this list, even though he did sign up for > it. Vern just now told the same. So I think something is not working in the > sign-up process (didn't work for them anyway). > > Steve is sadchuk at hotmail.com, and Vern is vbusch at shaw.ca - could > whoever maintains the list add them, please? > > Thanks, > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From humble at resist.ca Mon Nov 6 14:32:19 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:32:19 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Chatting with David Repa Message-ID: <200611061432.20018.humble@resist.ca> Hi folks, Here is the transcript of a chat I had with David at few minutes ago. I support the idea of using the name FreeGeek Vancouver for the incorporation of our society for the reasons that David outlined in his response to Stephan, over the weekend. In brief, I can't see that there's much to lose and there seems to be much to gain in helping spread this important meme and saving ourselves some of the work that they've already done. Please note my idea that the society could assist in the creation of a parallel worker's co-op to provide services that fall outside the scope of FreeGeek. However, I don't consider this an immediate priority. Scott (12:54:54 PM) Dave Repa: did you see stephans disagreement with joining freegeek-pdx? (12:55:16 PM) obi-nine: yes... your response was spot on and i'll send a message to that effect later today (12:55:56 PM) Dave Repa: scott I am having some reservations about boards (12:56:06 PM) obi-nine: heh... (12:56:11 PM) Dave Repa: I know they are required by law, and I'm not a big law fan (12:56:24 PM) obi-nine: well... the alternative is a co-op (12:56:52 PM) Dave Repa: can you briefly tell me more and can we get charitable status? (12:57:12 PM) obi-nine: heh - i asked my partner that last night... (12:57:37 PM) obi-nine: she's a corporate litigator so knows much more about corporations than societies (12:58:00 PM) obi-nine: generally there's much less known about co-ops because there are a lot fewer of them (12:58:21 PM) obi-nine: but her answer was... "it should be possible" (12:59:09 PM) obi-nine: legally it's all about which act you're governed by: the corporation's act, the societies act, or the cooperative's act (01:00:18 PM) obi-nine: "the law" (therefore the gov, the banks, City Hall, etc.) understands societies and corporations best because they deal with them all the time (01:01:22 PM) Dave Repa: interesting (01:01:30 PM) Dave Repa: what's your take or feeling on this matter? (01:02:09 PM) obi-nine: basically there are two kinds of co-ops - service co-ops which are about delivering a service to its members (eg. Vancity or MEC) and worker's co-ops which are about providing work to its members (eg. Mondragon?) (01:02:50 PM) Dave Repa: yes mondragon is a workers co-op and for profit (01:03:14 PM) Dave Repa: i just have the Cooperative Association Act up on my other screen..some light reading (01:03:56 PM) obi-nine: one other note: the term "non-profit" is a misnomer... it's just a society and it doesn't serve shareholders or is expected to make a profit (01:04:19 PM) Dave Repa: good point (01:04:49 PM) obi-nine: i think we should incorporate as a society, run a smooth AGM and get things rolling (01:05:17 PM) obi-nine: when we have some money we should help setup a parallel workers co-op (01:05:49 PM) Dave Repa: hmm (01:06:33 PM) obi-nine: the co-op could share our space (at least initially) but provide support services to those you can and are willing to pay (01:06:47 PM) obi-nine: the other thing that we haven't talked about is members... (01:06:53 PM) Dave Repa: i like the path of least resistance myself, I just don't want a divided board and staff (01:07:14 PM) obi-nine: it absolutely sucks to have conflict between board and staff (01:07:36 PM) obi-nine: in a smooth organization the staff have the full support of the board (01:08:00 PM) Dave Repa: i almost would like to have a proxy board, but i know that is not the best idea either, remember I come from a different realm of experience (01:08:37 PM) obi-nine: yeah... what you want is a fully supportive board (01:08:57 PM) obi-nine: hold on a few mins. - Tannis' dog is making me take her out ;-) (01:10:49 PM) Dave Repa: well I was reading freegeeks by laws last night and just got drowned in jargon, it is really not my strong point (01:29:06 PM) obi-nine: back... (01:29:14 PM) Dave Repa: all right (01:29:45 PM) obi-nine: did you get a sense from the freegeeks by-laws of what we want and what we don't? (01:30:09 PM) obi-nine: i imagine they have taken a standard set of by-laws and then tweaked and added to that (01:31:07 PM) Dave Repa: well I have never seen a "standard set of by laws" for any society so I was reading it with fresh eyes (01:31:13 PM) obi-nine: heh (01:32:06 PM) obi-nine: unless it's been drafted by lawyers usually you can see the plain english (added) and the legalese (standard) (01:32:10 PM) Dave Repa: i suppose i would feel more comfortable if there was some soert of recourse or grievance procedure written in.. I didn't see that last night while reading it (01:32:30 PM) obi-nine: what kind of recourse? (01:33:08 PM) obi-nine: we're pretty much free to add anything we want as long as we realize that we're bound (legally, of course;) to follow our own by-laws (01:34:37 PM) obi-nine: we can also change our by-laws but that requires the assent of the members- either at an AGM (usually) or through a special referendum (01:35:11 PM) Dave Repa: well I'm not sure exactly what kind of recourse but something that protects the workers from a board gone astray (01:35:45 PM) obi-nine: well... the board in turn is supposed to reflect the wishes of the members (01:35:55 PM) Dave Repa: good point (01:36:02 PM) obi-nine: they get voted in, or not, at the AGM (01:36:14 PM) Dave Repa: who gets to vote? (01:36:20 PM) obi-nine: any member (01:36:30 PM) obi-nine: (as defined in the constitution) (01:36:56 PM) obi-nine: I've been witness to several hostile takeover attempts at societies I've been part of... that deserves a beer of it's own ;-) (01:38:27 PM) Dave Repa: i see so... does the constitution come into effect after the gov oks all the np paper work? (01:38:38 PM) Dave Repa: the procedure is a little lost on me of what comes first (01:39:43 PM) obi-nine: well... we can go ahead and register the society and list founding directors and register using the stock (the kit) articles of incorporation.... (01:40:30 PM) obi-nine: that allows us to get going - setup a bank account, start signing up members, etc. (01:41:11 PM) obi-nine: then we can hammer out the articles (by-laws) that we want to have - which will take some time, believe me! ... (01:41:21 PM) Dave Repa: ok ... well we first have to get past the small debate of who wants to go with freegeek (01:41:31 PM) Dave Repa: we do have two people that have a problem with it (01:41:46 PM) Dave Repa: well stephan mainly and steven from the meeting had a problem with the name (01:42:22 PM) Dave Repa: we have not heard from the others yet on this point so I imagine they support it? (01:42:27 PM) obi-nine: ahh.. has Steven piped up since 'cause i thought he was happy with the response he received at the meeting (01:43:00 PM) obi-nine: people seem generally stoked to me (01:43:02 PM) obi-nine: heh (01:43:02 PM) Dave Repa: now that would be scary [ snip - mailing list details ] (01:49:10 PM) Dave Repa: let's get everyone on board (ha) with the freegeek idea first and then move to the next step (01:49:23 PM) obi-nine: not at all... I'm here to help set this thing up (01:49:55 PM) Dave Repa: I know scott and your help is a friggen blessing it the only thing that let me sleep last night (01:50:02 PM) obi-nine: it's important to keep in mind too, that people will come and go and we can't get too hung up on trying to please everyone 100% (01:50:05 PM) Dave Repa: i've been having a bad case of anxiety this morning (01:50:33 PM) obi-nine: heh - not used to not having a job to head off to? ;-) (01:50:38 PM) Dave Repa: i think the drastic change in life patterns for me is going to take a bit (01:51:04 PM) Dave Repa: I feel very responsible for making sure this works out right..that's not a bad thing just a new kind of pressure on myself (01:52:06 PM) obi-nine: hey... that pressure is supposed to filter up to the board via the membership and then to you - not just come straight from you to you ;-) (01:52:40 PM) Dave Repa: well I know that's how it is supposed to be..but right now this is how it feels and i know it will change From betterthanbutter at gmail.com Mon Nov 6 18:45:59 2006 From: betterthanbutter at gmail.com (LBA Veldstra) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 18:45:59 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] hullo FG In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: hullo, I am not too geeky. I have never swallowed a sword. nor do i hammer nails up my nose. I have been a usr of linux/debian for over 6 years though. I experimented with it on "shark" one of my brothers early computers. and a few others that have been created since then. I am more of a resource for accomplishing things in the physical world. I have experience in recycling. worked at a automobile scrapyard, and on a fibre line at a recycling depot in Victoria. I have worked in the non-profit sector as a CAP employee. I make damn fine espressos. and know the ins and outs of retail. i have worked at the hope kitchen. I can make t-shirts, stickers, and many other things. I am one-of-the-best-dishwashers in the universe. I am a pretty good hack, if not a hacker. I feel that freegeek is probably the coolest thing i have ever heard of. a community of computer folke, coming together to share knowledge, and share the burden of so called "e-culture." A community venture in technology. lets face it the human world could use a bit of sprucing up. if not cleaning up. opensource is a potential solution. freegeek is the logical progression of opensource software. an open society. but i hesitate to use that word-- society. too elite. aaron -- ~aaron~ "leave the credit for the thieves, i'll take myself and live in the trees." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humble at resist.ca Mon Nov 6 19:19:46 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:19:46 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Changes to the configuration of this list Message-ID: <200611061919.46165.humble@resist.ca> Hi folks, I've been informed that FreeGeek Portland allows public access to their list archives. I had originally configured this list to require a list subscription to view the archives but I have just changed that. The new list introduction message (sent to new members) reads (in part): -------------- Please note that this is a discussion list. If you hit reply your message goes to the list. Please send an introductory message telling us about your interest in FreeGeek, your relevant experience, and how much time you can commit per week. The list archives are available at: https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/freegeek-van/ This list archive is PUBLIC and will be indexed by Google (and others). ------------- Hope everyone who's posted anything so far is comfortable with that change. cheers, Scott From iamlachance at gmail.com Mon Nov 6 19:29:41 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2006 19:29:41 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Changes to the configuration of this list In-Reply-To: <200611061919.46165.humble@resist.ca> References: <200611061919.46165.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611061929x6c6769a8gb0a3383c079c116c@mail.gmail.com> not surprisingly, that sounds good to me. it will enable us to ensnare innocent bystanders into contracting a terminal case of freegeekinitis. also it indicates a transparent, open source philosophy, which i think is wise to cultivate. ~!fny On 11/6/06, agent humble wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've been informed that FreeGeek Portland allows public access to their list > archives. I had originally configured this list to require a list > subscription to view the archives but I have just changed that. The new list > introduction message (sent to new members) reads (in part): > > -------------- > > Please note that this is a discussion list. If you hit reply your message goes > to the list. > > Please send an introductory message telling us about your interest in > FreeGeek, your relevant experience, and how much time you can commit per > week. > > The list archives are available at: > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/freegeek-van/ > > This list archive is PUBLIC and will be indexed by Google (and others). > > ------------- > > Hope everyone who's posted anything so far is comfortable with that change. > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Mon Nov 6 22:01:34 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:01:34 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4550213E.5020209@seanhill.ca> I'm only wondering if this action should hinge on how we decide on the name and affiliation issue. sean :o) ifny wrote: > is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG portland? > > i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha > thinkin. > > i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are > objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. > > if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. > > > On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: >> 2 proposals: >> >> 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the >> minutes! >> >> >> 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider >> allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in >> portland. >> >> here is the description of that mailing list: >> >> "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? >> This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about >> their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your >> area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." >> >> see the rest, as well as the archives, at >> http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup >> >> you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other >> mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo >> >> >> here are my reasons: >> >> -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to >> observe/learn from our process/development >> >> -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those >> considering starting a FG >> >> -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup >> experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they learn >> from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than >> hierarchy. >> >> -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free >> software movement & foster trust. >> >> -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, >> then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we >> shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that >> FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to >> vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper >> feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. >> >> -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to >> understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to >> >> -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise >> we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our >> mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. >> >> >> thoughts? objections? >> >> ~!fny >> > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From freegeek at seanhill.ca Mon Nov 6 22:49:21 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:49:21 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Changes to the configuration of this list Message-ID: <45502C71.50007@seanhill.ca> Great idea! Basically I feel that access should be as open as possible in order to be inviting and non-intimidating. This mailing list _is_ the nascent freegeek and the degree of openness in our process will largely determine the openness of the eventual organisation. sean :o) agent humble wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've been informed that FreeGeek Portland allows public access to their list > archives. I had originally configured this list to require a list > subscription to view the archives but I have just changed that. The new list > introduction message (sent to new members) reads (in part): > > -------------- > > Please note that this is a discussion list. If you hit reply your message goes > to the list. > > Please send an introductory message telling us about your interest in > FreeGeek, your relevant experience, and how much time you can commit per > week. > > The list archives are available at: > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/freegeek-van/ > > This list archive is PUBLIC and will be indexed by Google (and others). > > ------------- > > Hope everyone who's posted anything so far is comfortable with that change. > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Mon Nov 6 23:09:15 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 23:09:15 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611041849o40b3b07bo3598cba50e40c4d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4550311B.50400@seanhill.ca> I am a little uncertain about making this decision final on the mailing list. Any thoughts? In response to the proposition: I would like to see a full franchise partnership with FreeGeek, name and all. I have been fortunate to see their organisation in operation (heck, i'm a registered volunteer!) and believe that we should be emulating much of what they have set in motion. To Stephan, I agree that we will find many situations where a more regional aproach to a problem is called for. What I hear in your argument is concern over dependency and the resulting misguidance and resource wastage. For that reason, all of our steps should be intentional and well-planned, rather than taken indiscriminately from any sort of FreeGeek startup script. However, Portland's experience and expertise will be invaluable in recognizing the nature of issues (startup and maintenance) that will rise as challenges. The thing to remember is the spirit of the thing. FreeGeek is really a few missions tied together. We have hardware waste diversion, free software development and distribution, and community economic development. The individual organisations will become much more effective through the sharing of resources and information as a basic toolkit. Learning from the free software world, we should be looking to build a common library of general solutions which can then be specialized to apply to regional, real world problems. In that sense, FreeGeek Vancouver should shoot to grow into the supportive sibling of FreeGeek Portland and others. About the name...I've been throwing it around at people and asking how they feel about the word 'geek'. On the positive, people seem to feel that it's shed a lot of its negative baggage, that it's even seen as trendy. Some seem to associate it with particular fields (ie. computer geek, math geek, etc.), but some say that to them its a more general description of a person's social tendencies (ie. that they are excited by something technical). The name FreeGeek has been described as playful and open and a good description of the type of activity the organisation will perform (important!). On the critical side, some have pointed out that 'geek' may not continue to develop positive connotations. Also, the word can imply intellectual and introverted, socially awkward. While it does have a history of meaning sexually deviant, that seems to me to be more of an externally regional issue and it doesn't even seem to register for people here. Personally, I think it's a great name. I believe it carries a sense of humour and openness while being provacative and descriptive of a mission of helping people to turn the great computer invasion to their advantage. The only other thing that comes up is a question with regards to the meaning of non-hierarchical. As a non-profit, we do have legal limitations due to a requirement to have a board. What does non-hierarchical mean in this sense? sean :o) ifny wrote: > David, Simeon & Ifny sat around over moogie-cha & coffee & couldn't > stay away from the Geek discussion. Here's what we came up with. > > We propose that we now undertake to determine our affiliation status > with Free Geek Portland. David will depart for his fact finding > mission on the 11th. How about we make a dedicated effort to arrive at > consensus on this question before his departure? > > We would like to see an affilliation with Free Geek Portland as a full > organization (aka franchise). To do that, they require that we adhere > to these principles: > > Free Geek Fair Use Principles > http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Principles > > An organization that would be affiliated with Free Geek must: > > > > 1. Have a mission that is similar to and does not contradict the > Free Geek Mission Statement. > http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Mission_Statement > 2. Dispose of equipment in an ethical and environmentally > responsible manner. > 3. Use Free/Open Source Software wherever possible and must promote > the Free Software philosophy in other ways, such as transparent > collaboration with others. > 4. Provide low- and no-cost computer technology and training to > their community. > > An organization that would use the Free Geek name must additionally: > > 1. Be democratically run in a non-hierarchical way that is open and > transparent to all participants in its programs. > 2. Be a non-profit business (as legally defined in their location) > and must follow honest business practices and have the stated goal of > advancing the common good. > > > > If we can agree that these principles are in line with our collective > objectives, we can then proceed to partner with the Geek. > > The name question can then take place. If we don't use the Free Geek > name, we would only be allowed to be an affiliate. > > Therefore, please forumlate your responses to 2 questions: > 1. Would you like to see us be a full franchise partner with Free > Geek, including using the name Free Geek Vancouver? Note: "Free Geek > Vancouver" follows the convention of the overwhelming majority of > extant FG franchise partners in the US. Feel free to include your > reasons for agreement. > 2. If not, what alternative would you propose? Please describe the > basis of your objections. > > Why the urgency? We need a name to begin filing the paperwork for > nonprofit status. For example, we need to register our name & > establish with the city that it's not being used already. Also, public > statements, info, & website materials need to be marshalled. We need > to begin to assemble a public face. > > Go team! > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamturnip at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 00:17:34 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 00:17:34 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> --> You are now talking on #freegeek true eno9ugh hey there! you made it well god damn that was hard so we arew here to discuss something rather important but then so am i heh and a whois gives your IP address whois me compared to each other how i could possibly be any worse a speller actually this is all insecure to anybody who cares type faster iamturnip anyways... let's CHAT dammit! we are dammit! heh co-op vs. non profit yep coop is sexy ifny wanted in on it i want in on everything you ssocciety v. co-op that?s the curse & the blessing i suppose this idea came up from my unhappiness over boards coop is also potentially subversive well, but also the "danger" inherent in boards sorry to disappoint but co-ops have boards too thanks yes thats what i meant to say ohh well what the hell! well thanks for coming out everyone & what is maybe weird from an anarcho-tastic viewpoint hehe humble: tell me more about that quickiest meting in lefty history how does a coop work? do they have elections too? heh... i completely sympathize with the desire to create something that's not the usual yes... they have elections too hmmm well, it?s not innovation per say, i didn?t say that right it?s more that we shouldn?t just do something b/c it?s usually done a certain way but, BUT... it's still all up to uss to figure out: well i guess its not a point to debate like thought..but it would be nice to continue tochat like this if that is ok with everyone? what is a member we shold do it cuz it?s the best thing to do what rules must we follow in conducting our "business" what's the best thing to do? yes i think we should run with the non profit as there is already somethign work with there striking out with a coop might prove to be extra work like i was saying to david today that we?re at the point where we?re still configuring who?s going to self-direct/be long term imp to fgvan iamturnip: yes scott you seem comfy with a non profit eh? sorry long term committment not imp or elf or whatever dont forget dwarfs we must be inclusive I'm comfortable with a registered society for FreeGeek Van, yes i?m the kind of person who likes to know all about the possibilites before we choose one so that?s why it?s good to find out that coops need boards too agreed humble: what can we do to make sure that the board remains responsive to the needs of the org? & the staff? humble: you mentioned earler about putting the paper work in after i get back from pdx? hmm one thing at a time here iamturnip: naw irc you can do evthing at once backscroll rules well... arrange to elect board members that you want to work with and who will/can work togther like fix the election huh, that?s what i thot ;) sort of like the US gov't love it david: actually i was talking about meeting with Matt after you get back that?s a good idea fresh from the fray humble: ah ok..might make sense...depends on print time maybe? more focus & info straight comes out weekly what?s the rush? yeah, esp. if we're going to do the story around needing a space and publish your phone number fuzzybunny: no rush...any more focus I am going to need new glassess iamturnip: isn?t your number changing? fuzzybunny: trying to keep the same number just jostle around between mike and telus ah humble: ok lets talk to matt after i am back..we might also know if we are incorp by then? yeah... let's wait until you get back agreed humble: do you think it?s worth discussing a radically different dynamic that that which is laid down by our friendly neighbourhood gov?t? as for filing paper work..nov 9th? YES that is what i have been thinking about since wed not to ask a loaded q ... iamturnip: which? paperwork or deviant systems? both well... i'm no stranger to deviant systems no doubt you have that aura and how to set up the rules for a board and staff for example but some kind of saefty guard in but i'm kinda fpr efficiency and expediency vs. too much navel-gazing humble: I hear you on that true, but in some ways, satisfying the occupying power isn?t efficient either. it may be worth discussing making a board/staff demarcation that is perhaps lip service to regulation rather than actually implemented have you heard of Spiral Dynamics? i dont want to see a sit-in by the workers to get the baord to change no but the name thrills me humble: no (pet theory of mine at the moment) humble: lets hear it iamturnip: maybe a pyjama party the friendlier side of worker hardline yeah h humble: it?s encrypted, give ?er it's a theory that tries to explain personal, organizational and human evolution is there more? permission to do a wikipedia dump?? yes permission granted humble: sim has been talking to me about something similiar Spiral Dynamics argues that human nature is not fixed: humans are able, when forced by circumstances, to adapt to their environment by constructing new, more complex, conceptual models of the world that allow them to handle the new problems. Each new model includes and transcends all previous models. According to Beck and Cowan, these conceptual models are organized around so-called vMeme: systems of core values or collective intelligences, applicable to both individuals and entire cultures. In spiral dynamics, the term "vMeme" refers to a core value system, acting as an organizing principle, which expresses itself through memes (self-propagating ideas, habits, or cultural practices). The prepended and superscripted letter v indicates these are not basic memes but value systems which include them. * iamturnip nods Spiral Dynamics is not a linear or hierarchical model. There are infinite stages of progress and regression over time dependent upon the life circumstances of the person/culture, which are constantly in-flux. Similarly, attaining higher stages of development is not synonomous with attaining a 'better' or 'more correct' values system, although second-tier achievement is desirable. Each stage can (co)-exist in both healthy and unhealthy states, whereby any stage of development can lead to undesirable outcomes with respect to the health of the human and social environment. * iamturnip only went as far as high school! each level is nicely colour-coded so you can draw it using ordinary crayons ;-) * iamturnip likes what he reads though heh * fuzzybunny agrees so let?s apply taht * iamturnip wonders how it applies to our situation, and wonders how long he will talk in third person the bl;ue level is all about law and order - ie. the military, the law, the police is a good example of blue orgs humble: linkage please http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_dynamics humble: there is no pictures!!! iamturnip: add some heh ok I am trying to follow along here scan your crayon drawings, i think they?re quite good hold on... i have one handy i just about got mad i thought beige was "anarchic instinctive" heh so perhaps we?re in orange & green & june will see us in second tier or rather we?re not in orange but an institution might perceive us to be well... if we're strongly opposed and think orange (corporations) and blue (rules) must die then we're in green but we want to be in yellow - 2nd tier i find the era divisions distracting & contradictory here's what characterizes a yellow org or individual: go on When it is in charge, the person/group: 1. is disinclined to spend much energy on perfunctory niceties unless they are important to others present 2. will not waste time on interpersonal gamesmanship or pointless interpretations or contrived layers of meaning or semantic trivia 3. values good content, clean information, open channels for finding out more on their own terms, and an attitude of open questioning and discovery 4. favors appropriate technology, minimal consumption, and a deliberate effort to avoid waste and clutter 5. Has no need for status, exhibitionism, or displays of power unless power is demanded by the Life Conditions 6. enjoys human appetites but does not become a compulsive slave to any of them 7. is concerned with the long run of time rather than his or her own life or those of other humans 8. fully expresses anger, or even hostility, but the emotions are intellectually used rather than emotionally driven or manipulatively applied 9. sees life as an up-and-down journey from problem to solution, so both chaos and order are accepted as normal 10. replaces anything artificial or contrived with spontaneity, simplicity, and ethics that "make sense" 11. seeks after a variety of interests and will elect to do what he or she likes whether or not it is trendy, popular, or valued by others 12. cannot be coerced, bribed, or intimidated since there is no compulsion to control or desire to be controlled by others 13. will run the gamut of being gentle or ruthless, a conformist or nonconformist, based on the factors involved in a circumstance and the overall interests of life itself 14. locates his or her core motivation and evaluative systems within his- or herself, thus becoming relatively immune to external pressure or judgment. * iamturnip is not a robot please slow down note: Life Conditions is defined as: the conditions-without which combine the historic times, physical place, psycho-social existence problems, and socio-economic circumstances) sorry about all that just trying to give a quick rundown on how I try to guide myself yes i liek what i read i think we?re all kinda on the same page right? well..we try yes we can only try ;-) i?m feeling like this is validating --> jablko (~jablko at d207-6-195-230.bchsia.telus.net) has joined #freegeek * iamturnip knew this was bigger than just gettign old computers and doing shit with them not that i?m concerned with concerned with othef value systems hey jablko ! this is jack everyone jablko: Welcome Jack hey jack! jack i?m gonna send you what we been talking about (it's scott) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiral_dynamics * iamturnip is stepping away from the keyboard for a sec heh i was being ironic so humble hi guys hi jablko so humble yes what i get from all this which is great stuff & i?d like to spend some time esp on the pathologies sec humble: i take from this that you are amenable to radical departure when it comes from a poised core & is of real benefit to the propagation of FG well... I'd say my history is sufficient to answer that question i guess i mean in relation to the question at hand i think we can do anything we want, & we should try to do the best thing i?m a mystical pragmatist consensus makes for the best decisions, but also the most cosmically sensible having been involved in many startups i know that there can be a tendency to try to solve all the problems of the world in the creation of one lil' old org heh yes that?s why when david suggested thinking about hte model of a workers? collective, in order to influence the way the govt has it set up i was skeptical i think we all want to give others the experience that we had when we heard of FreeGeek but i?m all for having the reality be what we want well, my first experience was being there in a place that was packed with happy sweaty people and you want to give that experience to otherss, right? where a lot of goodness burst out & then suddenly realizing a sense that something right in this world can happen is what i got that this place actually had a finer purpose than just joy or rather different types of joy, when the lights came on & we started rolling out the workstations from the back room so give it to others yes give it to myself yes & so yes of course we should do the things that will make it happen which is why i think paperwork is paperwork people are peopel it is what we know it to be I am an action oriented person and so I am itchy to do things..I have never been so feeling bogged down not what we register it as so,,, the question is: what's the structure that will get us there fastest humble: Yes iamturnip: i told you , make a list & you will feel better humble: and best remember that dictatorships are faster to operate under not bogged down by myself just the system and so that is why I started takling about alt ways of starting this up faster bad & faster good ah i see maybe not realising that "that" would require more work but still, a list will help put it in context anyway humble: i can feel good about registering as a npsoc (sounds orwellian like that heh) as long as we are all open I have no problem either to having a symbolic board heh... it's important to remember that we get to decdide how it operates or at least discussing what taht would mean humble: exactly humble: yes I often overlook that point staff have been bending my ear that will be the realkly interesting part - what bylaws we craft between now and the AGM about a symbolic board humble: yes humble: that is what is currently going through my mind we could be *crafty* well... there are boards that aren't that active in the day to day of the org. for sure i mean, i?ve always been surprised at the segregation of the ppl on the ground & the ppl making decisions but they tend to be the more mainsteam ones (eg. United Way) good point like we could have a bunch of puppets sitting around a table having an agm while we have a usual meeting in the next room we being the people who were active yes i mean real puppets I've mostly worked with activist boards which like to get their hands dirty yes, but that then makes a stress b/c they?re unpaid while others are paid may i say that I think most people that are interested do want to get their hands dirty at least it seems to me for doing the same work dirty = good * fuzzybunny likes dirty oh sorry, thot we were cybering which is why i raised the idea of a worker's co-op that would be eventually created by the Society * fuzzybunny adjusts her collar aaanyway yes ah gmm hmm but then how would the coop relate to the society ? humble: i think we should concentrate our thought on the startup while i like the idea of eventual spin offs this reminds me of pete & jablko sitting down the hall from each other at their coop chatting on irc agreed so can it be safely agreed that come thursday some paper work is sub's? i guess my concern with that is that the board could prevent that later, unless it was something that was intimated from the start, or at least the idea of a symbolic board sub? huh? submitted sorry ahh submitted wel... the board has to operate according to the bylaws * iamturnip must slow down typing or get a keyboard that has letters on it that's why our work between now and the AGM is so important in depermining what we're really building here agreed ok humble: what role do you see yourself playing? by law number 1 - the board cannot interfer with the workers... just kidding i'm willing to run for a spot on the board humble: and that would be great thnigs are usually great on the board when people get along and there is no huge crisis to deal with board members are committed to the goals of the org, otherwise why would they be there (they don't get paid)? i guess i just am uncomfortable with its very existance it?s an imposed hierarchy from another imposed hierarchy & instead of operating organically, developing naturally as it should we should pick and choose the hierarchies that we oppose we would need to work within alien confines humble: agreed i am . i don?t like seeing 2 groups of people working who care equally about a project but one of them is compensated well.. any legal structue incl. co-op can be fitted into your def. while the other controlls the resources yes to my objection you mean it?s all case by case for me well.. it's meant to precent conflict of interests in how the money gets spent err... prevent & here is a case that i think creates inequities that i?m unhappy with fuzzybunny: how do you propose to work around a board? but why can?t everyone decide that? i see that it?s to prevent interdepartment fighting but still i don?t see how that kind of territorialism applies humble: how could there be a conflict of interest with money when its the workers(i mean that as paid people) who would have trhe best interest in mind? we know that everyone involved will have the best intentions for FG heh so with trust & love we strike out into the desert humble: maybe i am being naive? naivite is a form of strength when it has to do with faith in your colleagues & openness e.g. if you trust ppl they usually rise to it i agree that fuzzybunny: excellent point that includes your board ;-) i knew that was coming heh make that LOL sec * fuzzybunny cracking a beer so yes but the board is an alien it sets people apart an alien that we can control through the bylaws humble? that?s how resentment starts & politicking fear is what hurts consensus the most sec but any member in good standing can run for a spot on the board i feel like we are a big loader stuck i the mud... i still have heard no convincing reasons for having a board its the law..so we have to find away to work aroudn it since we can trust them not to have a conflict of interest, their raison d?etre disapprears iamturnip: i'm not convivnced we need a board either f.bunny law is fine, law is paper tiger not referring to that we do what we need to vis a vis gov?t deskjockeys humble: i had a great convo with graham, from spartacus he said there are advantages to a board " if you have an ecology of equally empowered people, they automatically find consensus" lets hear these advantages to be fair messing wiht that makes consensus wobbly we don't have to call it a board - at least within the org. itself humble: sean says hi (from the meeting) he?s come over with beer humble: so what are the advantages? i?m curious well... one is that you involve people who have skill useful to the org. - eg. accountants, laawyers, etc. btw i?m making a call now, so i?l be out for a bit and get their skills for free hi to sean! --- fuzzybunny is now known as sean free skills is good I can see ifny point however I am uncomfy with the separation of workers and board but I am willing to work with the idea through a well made set of by laws well... you can get somewhat around the seperation of board and staff with a co-op I've only been part of forming one co-op and it didn't work out are you suggesting we move to a co-op? err x that out cause you have made your intentions known no... I think it would take much longer and be a lot more work agreed but i also don't want FG held hostage to what I think and its not I'm comfortable with waiting until after a Portland fact-finding mission to file the papers hang on sim is giving his two cents over the phone to me good lord heh sim says - if everyone wants equal power will they also accept equal liability? that is a good point it is a good point if we want to make educating people about a different way of structuring organizations central to our missions, then co-op is a good choice thats not the freegeek mission though we must keep that in mind if we just want to start bulding computers and installing Linux then society is the best choice the point about liability is worth a bit more examination tho simeon is coming live from YVR is he at work on the Canada line, atm? yup to interject somewhat, having a legal identity gains many advants, plus we can make stipulations on the actions of the brd in the charter, including decision powers etc. it is allot of work but at the same time such would add to future entities other people form. It still comes down so much to those in it. agree true other entities understand societies - we don't have nearly as much explaning to do when we sign a lease, get a bank account, etc sorry sim is just telling me lots of stuff...taking notes that gets back to whether or not educating other on a different way of doing things is central to our mission i dont think it is i feel we'll have enough explaning to do vis a vis software licencing it?s incidental but could be payed attention to for this reason sean: say more... how much time would we be willing to spend on such matters you mean on explaining that we're a non-prrofit workers co-op rather than a society? this all gets very involved but it seems some of the people who we know are so versed in such dealings sim would like to open a small can of worms more a thought than anything yay! open source is not a consensus based model booya! i believe the original quote called it "rough consensus" hold on... the kernel is ok'd linus torvalis himself..a legitimate authority in the most anarchist sense same as the python code is ya or nah by guido von russum peopel are more than able to fork off but that doesnt really happen "We reject kings, presidents and voting. We believe in rough consensus and running code." Clark. clark who? sim would like to know and what project is that refering too hmm... it's from the Internet Engineering Task Force http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consensus wow this is exciting! I love it Within the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), the concept of "rough consensus and running code" is the basis for the standardization process. It has proven extremely effective for standardizing protocols for inter-computer communication, particularly during its early years. still looking for "Clark"... sim "yest hat is different than writing code however, forming a standard is different than writting code" Internet historians recognize the technical achievements but often overlook the bureaucratic innovations of Internet pioneers. The phrase, "We reject: kings, presidents, and voting. We believe in: rough consensus and running code," was coined by David Clark in 1992. source: http://www.computer.org/portal/cms_docs_annals/annals/content/promo2.pdf what else from Sim? well he says (sorry to dominate with my paste 'n' cutism) "if we just want to start bulding computers and installing Linux then society is the best choice" " linus does not equal a king he has no power of coercion(bad spelling i know), his power comes from being right, and people listen" but that is not what freegeek is only --- sean is now known as ifny sorry i?m back catchign up open source is consensus based but in a time lagged sense one might say sim "what does that mean" since it flows like water in the same way have you been smoking up? it adapts depending on the situation, according to the participants?s needs humble: heh heh told you i?m a metaphysician i?m here to heal thy ills if we say that consensus is essentially volunatary decisions by voluntary participants then open source is still in the game BOOM as far as liability goes if we create a board (artificial demarcation of power) then that board is liable for the actions of others we create a environment where fear becomes even more likely a result no wonder boards freak out the way that they do sim says "while it is true that in software as larry wall says, that there is more then one way to do it, it is alaso true that there is typically one best way to solve a paticular problem, and that way is most apparent and obvious to that person who has the deepest understanding and the most experience with the system in question" (not inevitable, but certainly stacked) so should the people be resp for their decisions? YES sim says the railtry is someone is still going to be liable we should all make the decisions, & all be resp for them reaility yes sorry sim "its a question of who gets sued" the devil's in the details as we all know why should the board members be resp for the actions of the staff?? because they wield power over them no denying it gross they have to control staff for selfish reasons grosser but you're taking the "glass half full" view staff are doing the real work, yet are feared by their masters humble: humble: oops but that?s the implication of having a board & a staff! i?m just following the logic seems to me anyway a board is created because of mistrust & that mistrust propagates itself no.. a board is created to get things done I can see your point humble sorry, how is a board more effective than the ppl on the ground?? comprised of people who believe in the purpose of the organization so much that they volnteer their time and energy to see that it is a success just to clarify i could care less what we do to satisfy the req?s to become a nonprof i?m concerned with what we actually do humble: of course, everybody cares & people don?t have to get paid then this belongs in crafting out bylaws yeah, i?d agree withthat what do you mean by "i could care less what we do to satisfy the req?s to become a nonprof"? well, i?m concerned with the realpolitik not an imposed system i don?t mind working within systems i?m not a pyrhrric kinda gal i just want there to be dialogue about this i mean, i don?t mind being liable for FG we need to get sean a lapdog right now heh lapdog? laptop ahh... i'm getting tired 'cause I'm starting to lose focus eyah calliing a laptop a lapdog doesn't help - but it's amusing! is sim still on the line? everything helps humble: no so can we agree that this is a big exciting topic perhaps we can discuss this more tomorrow night humble: sorry just a inside joke that i forget about sometimes that people dont know tomorrow night? yeah... invite the whole list good idea humble: i was just sayingthat sean is telling me some great things but he is not infront of a computer to put it doewn but it takes a long time i am delivering a lecture at Kwantlen until about 8pm he is sharing a laptop with ifny and I was hoping to get my otherl aptop running so hecould join in that is all ok humble: are you frustrated or tired? actually... my housemate just came home and i haven't seen her since last week k we?ll let you go we can call the meeting don?t worry humble: i hope we can continue this at a later date & is it ok if this is included (a transcript i mean?) yeah... tomorrow - same place - ie. here??? (to the mailing list) & is 8:30ok? humble: as usual it was excellent to talk to you...my mind is churning over alot humble: ok yeah humble you rock sorry to put boards through the ringer thank you folks.. sorry to drop so much stuff in there well... if it's any consolation indymedia has never had a board is it ok to post this chat to the mailing list? humble: i don?t need succor, just chocolate & revolution ok & maybe cuddling it might make me nicer posting is fine by me ok From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 02:43:37 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 02:43:37 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <4550213E.5020209@seanhill.ca> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> <4550213E.5020209@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611070243x4ca74908m3a80d716cdf026cc@mail.gmail.com> well, i?d say whether we decide to go with freegeek or not, it doesn?t hurt for them to benefit/learn from our conversations... ~!fny On 11/6/06, sean wrote: > I'm only wondering if this action should hinge on how we decide on the > name and affiliation issue. > > sean :o) > > > ifny wrote: > > is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG portland? > > > > i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha > > thinkin. > > > > i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are > > objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. > > > > if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. > > > > > > On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: > >> 2 proposals: > >> > >> 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the > >> minutes! > >> > >> > >> 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider > >> allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in > >> portland. > >> > >> here is the description of that mailing list: > >> > >> "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? > >> This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about > >> their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your > >> area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." > >> > >> see the rest, as well as the archives, at > >> http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup > >> > >> you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other > >> mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo > >> > >> > >> here are my reasons: > >> > >> -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to > >> observe/learn from our process/development > >> > >> -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those > >> considering starting a FG > >> > >> -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup > >> experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they learn > >> from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than > >> hierarchy. > >> > >> -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free > >> software movement & foster trust. > >> > >> -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, > >> then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we > >> shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that > >> FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to > >> vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper > >> feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. > >> > >> -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to > >> understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to > >> > >> -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise > >> we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our > >> mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. > >> > >> > >> thoughts? objections? > >> > >> ~!fny > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 03:26:19 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 03:26:19 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611070326j55b883f1ma5789f0060994128@mail.gmail.com> okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to continue this discussion. 8:30pm irc.indymedia.org #FGHQ if you can?t make it, don?t worry no decisions will be made we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late too. if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some are listed at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). ~ifny by the way, in the conversation below: humble was played by scott iamturnip was played by david fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny sean was played by sean moffat simeon played via phone ifny was distracted by phone From freegeek at seanhill.ca Tue Nov 7 08:38:24 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 08:38:24 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: proposals re: minutes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611070243x4ca74908m3a80d716cdf026cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611040910o6e6b306bob177a96517f0ad1b@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611051241v2e974f32v2254f32344db529f@mail.gmail.com> <4550213E.5020209@seanhill.ca> <3d895eaf0611070243x4ca74908m3a80d716cdf026cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4550B680.70706@seanhill.ca> all cool with me then, send 'em up! :o) ifny wrote: > well, i?d say whether we decide to go with freegeek or not, it doesn?t > hurt for them to benefit/learn from our conversations... > > ~!fny > > > On 11/6/06, sean wrote: >> I'm only wondering if this action should hinge on how we decide on the >> name and affiliation issue. >> >> sean :o) >> >> >> ifny wrote: >> > is everyone ambivalent about me sending meeting minutes to FG >> portland? >> > >> > i will take silence as support, but it would be nice to know whatcha >> > thinkin. >> > >> > i will also invite them to view our listserv archives. if there are >> > objections/concerns i am happy to discuss. >> > >> > if there are no objections, i'll send that both out tuesday or wed. >> > >> > >> > On 11/4/06, ifny wrote: >> >> 2 proposals: >> >> >> >> 1 - scribe postition is rotating so we all get a go at taking the >> >> minutes! >> >> >> >> >> >> 2 -i would ask the mailing list if they would like to consider >> >> allowing our minutes to be sent to the freegeek startup listserv in >> >> portland. >> >> >> >> here is the description of that mailing list: >> >> >> >> "Thinking about starting your own FREE GEEK in your area? >> >> This list is for you. You can poll others (including FG/PDX) about >> >> their experience doing so, check if there are subscribers from your >> >> area (cooperation!), and share resources you come across." >> >> >> >> see the rest, as well as the archives, at >> >> http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup >> >> >> >> you can also browse the archives of the rest of their *many* other >> >> mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo >> >> >> >> >> >> here are my reasons: >> >> >> >> -edifying:it would be an opportunity for others starting up to >> >> observe/learn from our process/development >> >> >> >> -inspiring: it would perhaps make the process tangible for those >> >> considering starting a FG >> >> >> >> -FGportland would gain profound knowledge about the 'enduser' startup >> >> experience. it would allow FG to refine the process by what they >> learn >> >> from us & has implications that ring of collaboration rather than >> >> hierarchy. >> >> >> >> -it would be in keeping with the tenets of the open source / free >> >> software movement & foster trust. >> >> >> >> -if we are indeed confident that we have the potential to do this, >> >> then we should be confident & proud of our process as well. we >> >> shouldn't feel pressure to appear perfect. we should also trust that >> >> FG is there to encourage our development. by allowing them to >> >> vicariously experience meetings, they may be able to give us deeper >> >> feedback that could save us time & energy down the road. >> >> >> >> -strength enough to be so open would highlight a dedication to >> >> understanding, rather than appearances. as for myself, i intend to >> >> >> >> -after they accept our application (if indeed it is a true franchise >> >> we desire to be), i might even propose that we offer access to our >> >> mailing list. after all, we have access to theirs. >> >> >> >> >> >> thoughts? objections? >> >> >> >> ~!fny >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://freegeek.org >> > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd >> millennium' >> > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> _______________________________________________ >> http://freegeek.org >> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humble at resist.ca Tue Nov 7 09:01:38 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 09:01:38 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611070326j55b883f1ma5789f0060994128@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611070326j55b883f1ma5789f0060994128@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> I think the subject of this message is a bit of a red herring. As I said previously co-ops also have boards and what we are really talking about is the operating structure we want FreeGeek to have. Having something called a board is an unavoidable legal requirement if we're actually going to manage a 15,000ft warehouse and operate a storefront. It's up to us how we craft the articles of incorporation (ie. bylaws) that will govern how we operate. Just so people know why this IRC server?... I have trouble connecting to IRC servers that use the standard 6667 port because of the Tor node I run at home. Indymedia IRC will let you connect using SSL at port 994. If you have no idea what I'm talking about and have never used IRC before you can still get in on the action by using Indymedia's web-based interface to IRC. It's at http://chat.indymedia.org. Just be sure to give yourself a unique 'nickname' and specify the name of the 'extra channel' as Ifny specified below - #FGHQ. For 'software' leave the default on the Java unless you are having troubles connecting - then choose the other (HTML - CGI). Hope to see you there later tonight. Scott On Tuesday 07 November 2006 3:26 am, ifny wrote: > okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to > continue this discussion. > > 8:30pm > irc.indymedia.org > #FGHQ > > if you can?t make it, don?t worry > no decisions will be made > we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think > if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late > too. > > if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some > are listed at: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients > > if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the > recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). > > ~ifny > > by the way, in the conversation below: > humble was played by scott > iamturnip was played by david > fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny > sean was played by sean moffat > simeon played via phone > ifny was distracted by phone From sadchuk at hotmail.com Tue Nov 7 11:03:02 2006 From: sadchuk at hotmail.com (Steve Babchuk) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:03:02 +0000 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: S3000118.JPG Type: image/jpeg Size: 67054 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sean at seanhill.ca Mon Nov 6 22:08:01 2006 From: sean at seanhill.ca (sean hill) Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 22:08:01 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Changes to the configuration of this list In-Reply-To: <200611061919.46165.humble@resist.ca> References: <200611061919.46165.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <455022C1.7020309@seanhill.ca> Great idea! Basically I feel that access should be as open as possible in order to be inviting and non-intimidating. This mailing list is the nascent freegeek and the degree of openness in our process will largely determine the openness of the eventual organisation. sean :o) agent humble wrote: > Hi folks, > > I've been informed that FreeGeek Portland allows public access to their list > archives. I had originally configured this list to require a list > subscription to view the archives but I have just changed that. The new list > introduction message (sent to new members) reads (in part): > > -------------- > > Please note that this is a discussion list. If you hit reply your message goes > to the list. > > Please send an introductory message telling us about your interest in > FreeGeek, your relevant experience, and how much time you can commit per > week. > > The list archives are available at: > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/private/freegeek-van/ > > This list archive is PUBLIC and will be indexed by Google (and others). > > ------------- > > Hope everyone who's posted anything so far is comfortable with that change. > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From sean at seanhill.ca Tue Nov 7 10:57:15 2006 From: sean at seanhill.ca (sean hill) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:57:15 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611070326j55b883f1ma5789f0060994128@mail.gmail.com> <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> Just for clarity Scott, the web based interface will allow us to get through a firewall correct? I may be at Langara College so I'm going to need something that operates on a pretty benign port. Also, you say the meeting is tonight, but ifny wrote that it was taking place tomorrow. I notice ifny wrote in at ~3am, she must have been on geek time and meant today. sean :o) agent humble wrote: > I think the subject of this message is a bit of a red herring. As I said > previously co-ops also have boards and what we are really talking about is > the operating structure we want FreeGeek to have. Having something called a > board is an unavoidable legal requirement if we're actually going to manage a > 15,000ft warehouse and operate a storefront. It's up to us how we craft the > articles of incorporation (ie. bylaws) that will govern how we operate. > > Just so people know why this IRC server?... I have trouble connecting to IRC > servers that use the standard 6667 port because of the Tor node I run at > home. Indymedia IRC will let you connect using SSL at port 994. > > If you have no idea what I'm talking about and have never used IRC before you > can still get in on the action by using Indymedia's web-based interface to > IRC. It's at http://chat.indymedia.org. Just be sure to give yourself a > unique 'nickname' and specify the name of the 'extra channel' as Ifny > specified below - #FGHQ. For 'software' leave the default on the Java unless > you are having troubles connecting - then choose the other (HTML - CGI). > > Hope to see you there later tonight. > > Scott > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 3:26 am, ifny wrote: > >> okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to >> continue this discussion. >> >> 8:30pm >> irc.indymedia.org >> #FGHQ >> >> if you can?t make it, don?t worry >> no decisions will be made >> we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think >> if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late >> too. >> >> if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some >> are listed at: >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients >> >> if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the >> recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). >> >> ~ifny >> >> by the way, in the conversation below: >> humble was played by scott >> iamturnip was played by david >> fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny >> sean was played by sean moffat >> simeon played via phone >> ifny was distracted by phone >> > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humble at resist.ca Tue Nov 7 11:53:33 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <200611071153.33341.humble@resist.ca> Hi Sean, To get through the school's firewall you may have to choose the HTML-CGI software choice rather than the Java, but it should work. Yes, ifny was on geektime - it's tonight (Tuesday). See ya later, Scott On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:57 am, sean hill wrote: > Just for clarity Scott, the web based interface will allow us to get > through a firewall correct? I may be at Langara College so I'm going to > need something that operates on a pretty benign port. > > Also, you say the meeting is tonight, but ifny wrote that it was taking > place tomorrow. I notice ifny wrote in at ~3am, she must have been on > geek time and meant today. > > sean :o) > > agent humble wrote: > > I think the subject of this message is a bit of a red herring. As I said > > previously co-ops also have boards and what we are really talking about > > is the operating structure we want FreeGeek to have. Having something > > called a board is an unavoidable legal requirement if we're actually > > going to manage a 15,000ft warehouse and operate a storefront. It's up to > > us how we craft the articles of incorporation (ie. bylaws) that will > > govern how we operate. > > > > Just so people know why this IRC server?... I have trouble connecting to > > IRC servers that use the standard 6667 port because of the Tor node I run > > at home. Indymedia IRC will let you connect using SSL at port 994. > > > > If you have no idea what I'm talking about and have never used IRC before > > you can still get in on the action by using Indymedia's web-based > > interface to IRC. It's at http://chat.indymedia.org. Just be sure to give > > yourself a unique 'nickname' and specify the name of the 'extra channel' > > as Ifny specified below - #FGHQ. For 'software' leave the default on the > > Java unless you are having troubles connecting - then choose the other > > (HTML - CGI). > > > > Hope to see you there later tonight. > > > > Scott > > > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 3:26 am, ifny wrote: > >> okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to > >> continue this discussion. > >> > >> 8:30pm > >> irc.indymedia.org > >> #FGHQ > >> > >> if you can?t make it, don?t worry > >> no decisions will be made > >> we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think > >> if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late > >> too. > >> > >> if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some > >> are listed at: > >> > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients > >> > >> if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the > >> recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). > >> > >> ~ifny > >> > >> by the way, in the conversation below: > >> humble was played by scott > >> iamturnip was played by david > >> fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny > >> sean was played by sean moffat > >> simeon played via phone > >> ifny was distracted by phone > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 11:54:51 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:54:51 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611070326j55b883f1ma5789f0060994128@mail.gmail.com> <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611071154n493b9667s492ac46725979468@mail.gmail.com> yes i was on geek time :D the meeting is tonight On 11/7/06, sean hill wrote: > > Just for clarity Scott, the web based interface will allow us to get > through a firewall correct? I may be at Langara College so I'm going to need > something that operates on a pretty benign port. > > Also, you say the meeting is tonight, but ifny wrote that it was taking > place tomorrow. I notice ifny wrote in at ~3am, she must have been on geek > time and meant today. > > sean :o) > > > > agent humble wrote: > I think the subject of this message is a bit of a red herring. As I said > previously co-ops also have boards and what we are really talking about is > the operating structure we want FreeGeek to have. Having something called a > board is an unavoidable legal requirement if we're actually going to manage > a > 15,000ft warehouse and operate a storefront. It's up to us how we craft the > articles of incorporation (ie. bylaws) that will govern how we operate. > > Just so people know why this IRC server?... I have trouble connecting to IRC > servers that use the standard 6667 port because of the Tor node I run at > home. Indymedia IRC will let you connect using SSL at port 994. > > If you have no idea what I'm talking about and have never used IRC before > you > can still get in on the action by using Indymedia's web-based interface to > IRC. It's at http://chat.indymedia.org. Just be sure to give yourself a > unique 'nickname' and specify the name of the 'extra channel' as Ifny > specified below - #FGHQ. For 'software' leave the default on the Java unless > you are having troubles connecting - then choose the other (HTML - CGI). > > Hope to see you there later tonight. > > Scott > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 3:26 am, ifny wrote: > > > okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to > continue this discussion. > > 8:30pm > irc.indymedia.org > #FGHQ > > if you can?t make it, don?t worry > no decisions will be made > we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think > if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late > too. > > if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some > are listed at: > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients > > if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the > recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). > > ~ifny > > by the way, in the conversation below: > humble was played by scott > iamturnip was played by david > fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny > sean was played by sean moffat > simeon played via phone > ifny was distracted by phone > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > From stephan at buckmaster.ca Tue Nov 7 12:01:14 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (stephan at buckmaster.ca) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:01:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20061107191632.C5B865F8B16@smtp.resist.ca> Ok, thanks, that sounds a little better now, more independent. I am still not sure about the advantage of access to advice so much, since they published a lot already. And probably will continue publishing. And would they really care answering questions on their mailing lists? They might realize they will learn as much from the ensuing discussion, and hearing problems of a similar organization. It's nice to be able to use the name. That seems to be the main advantage. But are they really known here? Don't we have to explain the concept from scratch anyway? In general, to me it looks more like adding another constraint on discussions and decisions - and paper work: >From their wiki, http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Startup_Franchise_Application ** When ready, submit a much more lengthy application for ongoing status as a Free Geek or affiliate .... The Final Application for Ongoing Status as a Free Geek Franchise can be a little daunting. Its nice to see a lot of postings to this mailing list. Cheers, Stephan At Sun, 5 Nov 2006 16:02:42 -0800 , reallifesim at gmail.com wrote: >Stephan's post didn't arrive here, I've copied it from the archives: > >> I don't think its a good idea to become a subsidiary of the Portland >> Freegeek -- without even looking at the Portland Freegeek. > >I think it is a mistake to discount Portland without any >consideration. Freegeek Portland has had six years of success doing >what we are proposing to start doing here. Many of the problems we >will surely face have been solved already in Portland. > >Discounting Portland's experience will cost us a great deal of extra >work and quite likely cause us to make some of the same mistakes >again. > >To be clear, what we are proposing is affiliate status, not >subsidiary. My understanding is we wish to become an independent >organization based on the Portland model. Meeting Portland's criteria >for affiliation means that we can tell potential sponsors that we are >following a proven model and have been audited by a successful >organization and have received it's blessing. > >This would be a tremendous boon to our credibility and would also >allow us to use the trademarked (and well known) Freegeek name. > >> For one, the more or less frequent visits to Portland bother me, and >> would likely increase. >> (See my book trafficlife.com) (Flying - even worse) > >I appreciate your position on vehicle use. > >I too am dismayed at our current vehicle culture. From suburban sprawl >to the SUV arms race, the system is clearly broken. I do my part to >try and make a difference. I have never owned a car, I've put tens of >thousands of kilometers on bicycles instead. I choose to live close to >where I work (or work close to where I live). I walk to the grocery >store. > >I also drive a work truck about a thousand kilometers a week. It has a >six litre V8 that burns hundreds of litres of fuel a week and is big >and heavy enough to kill should I crash it. > >I could not do my job without the truck and as gross as it is, it >would take more resources to transport what the truck can haul any >other way. > >The projects I work on include dense urban housing developments and >rapid transit. The people who live in the buildings I help create >don't need to drive and many of them don't own cars. > >I'm proud to be a part of the Canada Line project. Before I got the >work truck I had a bus pass. I took transit to sites all over the >lower mainland for work. The Canada line will make commuting by >transit better and faster for many people. A direct result of me >driving an obscenely large vehicle is fewer vehicles on the road in >the future. > >If a few trips to Portland can help save a few thousand tonnes of junk >from being shipped to China that is a win. A 40 tonne container >travelling 10,000km makes a trip to Portland look like a trip to the >corner store. Never mind what happens to all that toxic crap overseas. > >Travel to other cities does have an environmental cost, even if you >ride a bike, but it is still worthwhile. Travel opens new horizons and >exposes people to different cultures and ideas. Staying in the same >place your whole life is a great way to develop a xenophobic >worldview. > >> On the other hand, I'm not sure how much knowledge is transferable. >> Different populations, different geography, >> after all. How much of this is just pure work and effort. And how much >> of the information would be available >> without being actually affiliated. > >Well, as far as lessons learned in Portland, their wiki has a good >page on the history and progression of Freegeek Portland: >http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Meta_Question > >That page also explains that Freegeek's growth has occurred largely in >response to crises. The wiki page explains the crises and what >happened, what their response was and what it led to. > >Just one of the things I learned from that page is that a thrift store >can be a very effective way of covering operating costs. > >>From 1500 or so words I can glean hints like that. I know that a >weekend in Portland and a few PBRs with Revphil will gain me far more >insight than reading the wiki pages that folks down there have found >the time to put together. > >The Portland folks would probably be more inclined to help if we >sought affiliate status. Maybe not, but I know that I would be. > >I would encourage you to have a good look around the Portand wiki. If >you still feel we have little to learn from the Portland experience >after looking into it for yourself then I would love to hear your >arguments. > >> Last, would we have a Portland society asking for local support? >> (Vancity for example?) I think between >> a Portland society, and one based in Vancouver, Vancity or any other >> supporter we look up here, would >> prefer to donate to the one based in Vancouver. > >I don't think we are proposing a financial or organizational union. I >doubt Freegeek Portland would be willing to enter into one. > >It is a franchise. By giving us their name, they are asserting that we >are following a model that is acceptable to them and has been proven >to work in the past. > >The accounts, sales, donations and operations are independent. This is >not to say that we would never give or receive assistance, but there >is no obligation. > >There is no mention of a fee in the Portland wiki, but as they would >be using staff time to help us it would not be unreasonable to charge >one. > >The credibility affiliation would lend us should only help us in >seeking support from our community. Vancity would be more likely to >fund a project that has been successful in other places. > >> At least in my mind, the idea of Freegeek is to run a shop or two and >> recycle computers, teach something >> here and there. > >My vision is a number of programs: >1) An adoption program to reuse old machines and teach people how to use them. > >2) A build program to create machines for adoption and teach people >how to build machines. > >3) A recycling program to get toxic shit off of the street. > >4) A systems program to create and refine the software system >installed on the reused machines. (This sounds easy, but becomes a >pretty hard problem at big scales.) > >5) A introspective meta program to find ways to improve the other programs. > >It took Portland years to refine their programs. It would be negligent >to ignore the knowledge base available in Portland. This is the sort >of negligence that gets directors of corporations sued. > >If all we wanted to do was set up in some garage somewhere and play >around with junk then we could safely ignore Portland. If we want to >build a sustainable organization we must learn what we can from their >experience. > >> For some organizations it makes sense to pool resources >> / knowledge etc. across cities, and countries - >> amnesty international, for example, or to a lesser extent, Green Peace. >> But Freegeek doesn't look to me to be of these kinds. > >>From my point of view, it only makes sense to take advantage of what >they have learned in Portland. > >Thanks for your thoughts Stephan, though I disagree, I've had to >crystallize my thoughts to respond to yours, > >-- >sim >_______________________________________________ >http://freegeek.org >'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From humble at resist.ca Tue Nov 7 12:14:55 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:14:55 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <20061107191632.C5B865F8B16@smtp.resist.ca> References: <20061107191632.C5B865F8B16@smtp.resist.ca> Message-ID: <200611071214.56116.humble@resist.ca> On Tuesday 07 November 2006 12:01 pm, stephan at buckmaster.ca wrote: > ** When ready, submit a much more lengthy application for ongoing status > as a Free Geek or affiliate .... The Final Application for Ongoing Status > as a Free Geek Franchise can be a little daunting. I think that David and Ifny can probably complete that while they are down there. ;-) > Its nice to see a lot of postings to this mailing list. Agreed! ~s From stephan at buckmaster.ca Tue Nov 7 13:19:32 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (stephan at buckmaster.ca) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:19:32 -0800 (PST) Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <200611071214.24412.scott@sugar-lab.com> Message-ID: <20061107203453.47A715F8B1A@smtp.resist.ca> Well, this Final Application is Step 3 (although they don't call it that) See http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Startup_Franchise_Application Towards the end of Step 1, first comes the "basic application for preliminary status". See you, Stephan At Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:14:24 -0800 , scott at sugar-lab.com wrote: >On Tuesday 07 November 2006 12:01 pm, stephan at buckmaster.ca wrote: > >> ** When ready, submit a much more lengthy application for ongoing status >> as a Free Geek or affiliate .... The Final Application for Ongoing Status >> as a Free Geek Franchise can be a little daunting. > >I think that David and Ifny can probably complete that while they are down >there. > >;-) > >> Its nice to see a lot of postings to this mailing list. > >Agreed! > >~s > From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 15:37:34 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 15:37:34 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the question of affiliation & name In-Reply-To: <200611071214.56116.humble@resist.ca> References: <20061107191632.C5B865F8B16@smtp.resist.ca> <200611071214.56116.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611071537x6915ad24w835b22f6b62ce8c7@mail.gmail.com> yeaH, all this discussion is great. big thanks especially to everyone who?s raising objections/concerns. it?s inspiring deeper discussions than might otherwise have happened. diversity of voices will make our process richer. applications, erm, thanks scott ;) that is, if i don?t break my head in the alley kitten race in portland... perhaps it?s a symptom of advanced rabies, but i guess i?m looking forward to us slogging through applications. unlike a lot of red tape i?ve wrestled in the past (e.g. refugee/immigration applications), i can rest easy knowing that the architects want all viable applicants to succeed if possible. the forms? content seems to be a fairly detailed guide (read: shopping list) of worthy considerations. as for advice, FG may have published info that we can access, but that?s nothing like live ?tech? support. FG vancouver will be unique in its development & indiginous flavour, though our goals & manifestation are overarchingly the same. like if they were gelato, we will be sorbet. interaction with the mothership will be an invaluable sounding board. side note: yep, they really do care about answering questions on their mailing list. see them in action on the startup list archives: http://lists.freegeek.org/mailman/listinfo/startup these are caring, generous people who have devoted a lot of time & resources into furthering open source. it makes sense that they support an extension of their vision. to get more of a sense of free geek culture from your armchair, you can also browse the archives of their other mailing lists http://lists.freegeek.org/listinfo as for the name free geek, geek sheik & bike geeks un-tie! the general public may not be familiar with free geek pdx, but i get the impression that a lot of tech-heads have heard of it, & word is spreading about vangeek (esp since momentum?s article). while the general public may not be versed, lots of tech-heads & bike geeks have heard tell. anyway, the advantage is far greater than the name, it?s the precedent, & legitimacy, as well as the online presence/resources that anyone can be directed to. ~!fny On 11/7/06, agent humble wrote: > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 12:01 pm, stephan at buckmaster.ca wrote: > > > ** When ready, submit a much more lengthy application for ongoing status > > as a Free Geek or affiliate .... The Final Application for Ongoing Status > > as a Free Geek Franchise can be a little daunting. > > I think that David and Ifny can probably complete that while they are down > there. > > ;-) > > > Its nice to see a lot of postings to this mailing list. > > Agreed! > > ~s > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 16:45:23 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:45:23 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] temperature taking: free geek vancouver? Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611071645m668efc90o2dda4832b880369e@mail.gmail.com> ok, some general currents are starting to shape up. just to get a sense, as we plug along...can i now ask the members of this mailing list: if we were to decide to become free geek vancouver with full organizational status (including using the free geek name), would anyone at this point feel that they would not be able to continue their involvement in this project? please note: i send this with the firm belief that it is in everyone?s best interests to cultivate as many participants, & as much diversity of opinion as possible. losing people means a loss to the whole. i intend with this email for us to take a reading, not put pressure on those who may have reservations about such a move. this is an important decision. to wit: 1. if you have expressed reservations in the past, please consider giving the listserv an update on your feelings. 2. if you have not yet expressed an opinion on the matter, please consider doing so. even if you haven?t decided how you might get involved, your input is welcome. 3. if you have new objections/concerns, feel free. !fny From iamturnip at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 16:56:56 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 16:56:56 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] first application questions/ideas Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611071656h11640ec4rb9faed8290a9b53d@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, If we decide to go ahead and apply for freegeek status, I think it is a good idea that everyone takes a look at the first application form. Found at - http://freegeek.org/franchiseapp.php . Any yes or no type questions will be assumed answers, but there are a few questions that would be good to discuss. I have copied some questions below that stuck out to me, and if anyone thinks something else from the form could use a discussion please bring it up. Questions - What geographic area do you intend to serve? Explain how your volunteer group make decisions. (i.e. Will you be using formal consensus or majority rule?) How will decisions be recorded? Please explain the difference between a for-profit recycling and reuse company and a Free Geek style organization? -- David From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 7 20:41:21 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 20:41:21 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] impromptu irc-chat on the idea of Boards In-Reply-To: <200611071153.33341.humble@resist.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611070017s61848521v95f8173c43767834@mail.gmail.com> <200611070901.38087.humble@resist.ca> <4550D70B.4010405@seanhill.ca> <200611071153.33341.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611072041h6915e54eq253968ca95b7756f@mail.gmail.com> perhaps rather than discussing whether or not to have a board, we can move onto what having a board might mean (unless there are objections). i.e. how we can ensure that the group?s practices reflect our ideals, regardless of an externally imposed system that for practical reasons we must work within? relevant key words & jumping off bitties (not exhaustive): -liability -responsibility -segregation -hierarchy -consensus -flexibility -self-selection -division of labour -power -resentment -fear -being on the ground -big picture -practicality -convention -subversion -innovation On 11/7/06, agent humble wrote: > Hi Sean, > > To get through the school's firewall you may have to choose the HTML-CGI > software choice rather than the Java, but it should work. Yes, ifny was on > geektime - it's tonight (Tuesday). > > See ya later, > > Scott > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 10:57 am, sean hill wrote: > > Just for clarity Scott, the web based interface will allow us to get > > through a firewall correct? I may be at Langara College so I'm going to > > need something that operates on a pretty benign port. > > > > Also, you say the meeting is tonight, but ifny wrote that it was taking > > place tomorrow. I notice ifny wrote in at ~3am, she must have been on > > geek time and meant today. > > > > sean :o) > > > > agent humble wrote: > > > I think the subject of this message is a bit of a red herring. As I said > > > previously co-ops also have boards and what we are really talking about > > > is the operating structure we want FreeGeek to have. Having something > > > called a board is an unavoidable legal requirement if we're actually > > > going to manage a 15,000ft warehouse and operate a storefront. It's up to > > > us how we craft the articles of incorporation (ie. bylaws) that will > > > govern how we operate. > > > > > > Just so people know why this IRC server?... I have trouble connecting to > > > IRC servers that use the standard 6667 port because of the Tor node I run > > > at home. Indymedia IRC will let you connect using SSL at port 994. > > > > > > If you have no idea what I'm talking about and have never used IRC before > > > you can still get in on the action by using Indymedia's web-based > > > interface to IRC. It's at http://chat.indymedia.org. Just be sure to give > > > yourself a unique 'nickname' and specify the name of the 'extra channel' > > > as Ifny specified below - #FGHQ. For 'software' leave the default on the > > > Java unless you are having troubles connecting - then choose the other > > > (HTML - CGI). > > > > > > Hope to see you there later tonight. > > > > > > Scott > > > > > > On Tuesday 07 November 2006 3:26 am, ifny wrote: > > >> okay so there will be an impromptu meeting tomorrow night on irc to > > >> continue this discussion. > > >> > > >> 8:30pm > > >> irc.indymedia.org > > >> #FGHQ > > >> > > >> if you can?t make it, don?t worry > > >> no decisions will be made > > >> we?re just gonna see if we can type as fast as we think > > >> if you need to be late or whatever no prob. david says he will join late > > >> too. > > >> > > >> if you have never used irc, you should install client software. some > > >> are listed at: > > >> > > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients > > >> > > >> if you have any problems installing it, you can email me or the > > >> recently irc-deflowered david (or phone him at 604-690-7372). > > >> > > >> ~ifny > > >> > > >> by the way, in the conversation below: > > >> humble was played by scott > > >> iamturnip was played by david > > >> fuzzybunny & ifny were played by ifny > > >> sean was played by sean moffat > > >> simeon played via phone > > >> ifny was distracted by phone > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://freegeek.org > > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Tue Nov 7 22:14:44 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:14:44 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] open source symposium audio Message-ID: <455175D4.2070707@seanhill.ca> Some neat talks given at a recent Free and Open Source software symposium in Toronto is available online: http://cs.senecac.on.ca/fsoss/2006/recordings/ :o) From humble at resist.ca Wed Nov 8 16:17:15 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:17:15 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] essential bed-time reading In-Reply-To: <455175D4.2070707@seanhill.ca> References: <455175D4.2070707@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <200611081617.15982.humble@resist.ca> http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Free_Geek_Startups From bowserj at uselessdegree.net Thu Nov 9 07:50:53 2006 From: bowserj at uselessdegree.net (Joe Bowser) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 07:50:53 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Hello FreeGeek Message-ID: <1163087453.27107.9.camel@localhost> Hey After reading the archives, I figured I should probably introduce myself to the list. I'm Joe Bowser, and I have experience advocating for Open Source solutions in various non-profits for about 8 years now, mostly to do with Open Source applications in Campus/Community Radio, but also with other groups. I also once tried to get a community wireless hotspot network off the ground, and I got more press about it than what actually happened. :P I currently volunteer at Sparatcus Books and I do some maintenance on the various public computers at the space and the hotspot system there. I'm also interested in all aspects of getting this off the ground, especially the handling old hardware part of it. I figure that I'd be able to donate at least 10 hours a week, maybe more to helping get this thing going. This is also a test to make sure this e-mail can recieve freegeek e-mails. :) -- Joe Bowser From iamturnip at gmail.com Thu Nov 9 23:18:22 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:18:22 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] PDX ho! Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611092318m3d93e299p8526cd5ddde10664@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, I happy to announance that Aaron(betterthanbutter) secured a ride share for him and I to make it down to Portland on Friday. I am exited to re-visit the mothership and all the great people that make it happen. Seeing as there appears to be no sustained objection on the list,I feel confident in telling FG-PDX that our group seeks to be recognized as an official Free Geek. I am excited to let them know this. If anyone has reservations about this please let me know by Saturday morning, whether by email or phone, I will be more than happy to revisit this issue. As scott has pointed out, the initial application shall be done while I am in PDX. I posted some questions earlier on the list and will re-post them below with some starter answers. I would appreciate your folks ideas on these particular questions. Questions - 1)What geographic area do you intend to serve? Vancouver proper... any thoughts?? 2)Explain how your volunteer group make decisions. (i.e. Will you be using formal consensus or majority rule?) Concensus, that we still need to define. 3)How will decisions be recorded? Stone tablet? 4)Please explain the difference between a for-profit recycling and reuse company and a Free Geek style organization? Bottom line does not over ride responsible environmental decisions! -- David From stephan at buckmaster.ca Thu Nov 9 23:49:29 2006 From: stephan at buckmaster.ca (Stephan Wehner) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:49:29 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] PDX ho! In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611092318m3d93e299p8526cd5ddde10664@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611092318m3d93e299p8526cd5ddde10664@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45542F09.9070101@buckmaster.ca> Hi David, well, I hope you have a nice trip. I still think we'll be fine without the formal association, but we should do fine with as well. I forgot when the next meeting was supposed to be. Seeing there are quite a number of new subscribers to the list, maybe you could announce that soon (reminders are always good, I think). See you Stephan From tlowe at shaw.ca Thu Nov 9 23:57:12 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 23:57:12 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] PDX ho! In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611092318m3d93e299p8526cd5ddde10664@mail.gmail.co m> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061109235026.01e91540@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Hi David, plus other list listeners... You wrote: >>Questions - >>1) What geographic area do you intend to serve? >>Vancouver proper... any thoughts?? How about Greater Vancouver instead? Much bigger area, lots more old computers to get. After all, we don't have to go and get them - they bring em to us. The provincial government is going to set up collection centres for discarded electronics, anyway, probably through Encorp, who run many can and bottle recycling depots. We could perhaps in the future, have them forward the old computers to FG. Enjoy Portland! Terry From jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Fri Nov 10 09:24:48 2006 From: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca (Jennifer Campagnolo) Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 09:24:48 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Thx, Intro, support, sponsorship all in one Message-ID: Hi Everyone! Congratulations on getting so far in a short time with the reality of a FreeGeek here in Vancouver. There are talented, thoughtful people involved here, hence the great evolution. Thank you for all the organization, resources, and heart. I was immediately certain of the concept and wanting to contribute. I'll be brief to catch up on the main areas. Intro: I love technology, reducing waste and helping people become self- sufficient. FreeGeek's a natural. My skill set in a nutshell - 12 years of matching technology with business needs/use, helping organizations do what they do better; business process redesign; group facilitation, course design and communications; social sustainability; coaching and project management I am a member of Board of Directors for both Vancouver Community Network and the Western Canada Wilderness Committee I also worked with the Labour Environmental Alliance Society and learned a whole bunch about toxic trespass and the effect on the earth of our affluent effluent. 2 years ago, I worked with United We Can and saw the good but limited organization around computer recycling there. It bugged me. The operation was structured to give one person a job not build capacity. FreeGeek is different. I love the idea of spreading good opensource software, i.e. Ubuntu Scott Nelson is a friend and has done great things in this City in a quiet Ninja way. He leads me to good things and I appreciate it. How I can help FreeGeek: Capacity building and coaching folks who need support, maybe helping to build our way of working with people? Not sure if we need it but we'll be in contact with some folks who can be challenged if handled without care. The arrogant tech geek style won't help. Bringing the information, maybe a workshop, on the toxic side of life to round out the experience. At least, we must prepare people for the toxic side of handling the guts of their 'puters. Unless I give up something big, I will have to have a secondary or perhaps tertiary involvement with Free Geek. If we set up the organization with functional committees, i.e. communications, course design, funding, org. process, I can participate on one or two committees. Sponsorship: I'm not afraid to ask for money and write good proposals. I think a natural sponsor would be The Recycling Council of BC http:// www.rcbc.bc.ca/ City of Vancouver might be good for a small annual kick in, and I?d also push us to larger organizations like HP, IBM, Dell for support. Since the powers that be are going to be taxing consumption and not the producers, the producers have a part to play. The obvious notion that they?d want people buying new equipment may be sustained because more people will be able to buy new and pass off the old. Association: I like the idea of being associated with FreeGeek Portland and thereby buttressing and expanding the FreeGeek concept. A network of FreeGeek operations increases the reach and possibilities for all and other operations. Going Forward: Safe travels to our emissaries headed to Portland. Find out as much as you can about what works, how they feel about our association and who they get funding from. We won't compete for funds but can look for synergies and cdn equivalents. Peace out. Jennifer Campagnolo Mail: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Blog: www.anothergreenworld.org Work: www.thehigherground.ca Cell: 778-837-4343 Skype: jenvirtual Motto: AWARENESS, CAPACITY, CHANGE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iamturnip at gmail.com Sat Nov 11 10:10:20 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:10:20 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] whats in a name? Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611111010u1191158fua6c516d35af6797a@mail.gmail.com> Greetings from PDX, Here is some interesting news - BC OnLine: COMPANIES - NAME REQUEST 06/11/10 Lterm: XPSP0054 For: PB85397 UNITED CHINESE COMMUNITY ENRIC 12:50:33 NR Number: NR8594836 ** REJECTED ** Expiry Date: N/A Client: DAVID J. REPA ****************************************************************************** First Choice - * REJECTED * Name: FREE GEEK VANCOUVER Reason: * REQUIRE DESCRIPTIVE SECOND WORD OR PHRASE * E.G. CONSTRUCTION, GARDENING, INVESTMENTS, HOLDINGS, ETC. ****************************************************************************** Yes, our first road block with a happy ending. It didn't occur to me that FG-PDX might have been registered under a different name. ifny pointed out that the name one the website is actually "Free Geek Community Technology Center". I made a call to Victoria to see if I could plead stupidity and save having to do(and pay) for another name request. I was quite sure that I would not hear from the Registry office till next week. Much to my surprise it only took about an hour for them to call me back. I was now talking with the very person who rejected the name. After making it clear that we were trying to do something good she simply said "What name would you like?" I gave her "Free Geek Community Technology Center", which she said would fly, but I needed to add one thing to the end "society, association, or club". So I under the gun, and not wanting to miss this golden opportunity, took Society. So, for 55 days we have reserved the name "Free Geek Community Technology Centre Society". YEAH! From humble at resist.ca Sat Nov 11 10:18:32 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2006 10:18:32 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] whats in a name? In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611111010u1191158fua6c516d35af6797a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611111010u1191158fua6c516d35af6797a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611111018.32910.humble@resist.ca> Yay! Good work. For my part I made the first pass at a website yesterday. In consultation with Ifny I installed Drupal 4.7.4 along with some extra modules and did some basic configuration. You can check out the results at http://freegeekvancouver.org Please create an account and you can begin contributing to our online presence although note that this is highly preliminary! Hello to PDX, David! Scott On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:10 am, David Repa wrote: > Greetings from PDX, > > Here is some interesting news - > > > BC OnLine: COMPANIES - NAME REQUEST > 06/11/10 Lterm: XPSP0054 For: PB85397 UNITED CHINESE COMMUNITY ENRIC > 12:50:33 > > > NR Number: NR8594836 ** REJECTED ** Expiry Date: N/A > > Client: DAVID J. REPA > > > *************************************************************************** >*** First Choice - * REJECTED * > > Name: FREE GEEK VANCOUVER > > Reason: * REQUIRE DESCRIPTIVE SECOND WORD OR PHRASE * > E.G. CONSTRUCTION, GARDENING, INVESTMENTS, HOLDINGS, ETC. > > > *************************************************************************** >*** > > Yes, our first road block with a happy ending. It didn't occur to me > that FG-PDX might have been registered under a different name. ifny > pointed out that the name one the website is actually "Free Geek > Community Technology Center". I made a call to Victoria to see if I > could plead stupidity and save having to do(and pay) for another name > request. > > I was quite sure that I would not hear from the Registry office till > next week. Much to my surprise it only took about an hour for them to > call me back. I was now talking with the very person who rejected the > name. After making it clear that we were trying to do something good > she simply said "What name would you like?" I gave her "Free Geek > Community Technology Center", which she said would fly, but I needed > to add one thing to the end "society, association, or club". So I > under the gun, and not wanting to miss this golden opportunity, took > Society. So, for 55 days we have reserved the name "Free Geek > Community Technology Centre Society". YEAH! > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sun Nov 12 15:11:10 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:11:10 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] e-waste article mentioned on slashdot Message-ID: <4557AA0E.7020006@seanhill.ca> here's a link to an article about an e-waste initiative mentioned on slashdot: http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/06/11/12/1841212.shtml sean :o) From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sun Nov 12 15:21:06 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 15:21:06 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] whats in a name? In-Reply-To: <200611111018.32910.humble@resist.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611111010u1191158fua6c516d35af6797a@mail.gmail.com> <200611111018.32910.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <4557AC62.2070300@seanhill.ca> Great work to both of you! Good news that we have a name! It makes it easier to talk to people about this venture when we can state who we are. Also, having a web presence will make it easier to focus people's attention down to what we're doing. I really dig the timeline module! Can that be given its own page as well to show a greater range of time? sean :o) agent humble wrote: > Yay! Good work. > > For my part I made the first pass at a website yesterday. In consultation with > Ifny I installed Drupal 4.7.4 along with some extra modules and did some > basic configuration. You can check out the results at > http://freegeekvancouver.org > > Please create an account and you can begin contributing to our online presence > although note that this is highly preliminary! > > Hello to PDX, David! > > Scott > > On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:10 am, David Repa wrote: > >> Greetings from PDX, >> >> Here is some interesting news - >> >> >> BC OnLine: COMPANIES - NAME REQUEST >> 06/11/10 Lterm: XPSP0054 For: PB85397 UNITED CHINESE COMMUNITY ENRIC >> 12:50:33 >> >> >> NR Number: NR8594836 ** REJECTED ** Expiry Date: N/A >> >> Client: DAVID J. REPA >> >> >> *************************************************************************** >> *** First Choice - * REJECTED * >> >> Name: FREE GEEK VANCOUVER >> >> Reason: * REQUIRE DESCRIPTIVE SECOND WORD OR PHRASE * >> E.G. CONSTRUCTION, GARDENING, INVESTMENTS, HOLDINGS, ETC. >> >> >> *************************************************************************** >> *** >> >> Yes, our first road block with a happy ending. It didn't occur to me >> that FG-PDX might have been registered under a different name. ifny >> pointed out that the name one the website is actually "Free Geek >> Community Technology Center". I made a call to Victoria to see if I >> could plead stupidity and save having to do(and pay) for another name >> request. >> >> I was quite sure that I would not hear from the Registry office till >> next week. Much to my surprise it only took about an hour for them to >> call me back. I was now talking with the very person who rejected the >> name. After making it clear that we were trying to do something good >> she simply said "What name would you like?" I gave her "Free Geek >> Community Technology Center", which she said would fly, but I needed >> to add one thing to the end "society, association, or club". So I >> under the gun, and not wanting to miss this golden opportunity, took >> Society. So, for 55 days we have reserved the name "Free Geek >> Community Technology Centre Society". YEAH! >> _______________________________________________ >> http://freegeek.org >> 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 12 20:28:37 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 20:28:37 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] whats in a name? In-Reply-To: <4557AC62.2070300@seanhill.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611111010u1191158fua6c516d35af6797a@mail.gmail.com> <200611111018.32910.humble@resist.ca> <4557AC62.2070300@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611122028k7a3dcd39sb043f2d8e1bdb81a@mail.gmail.com> kudos to simeon for sagely reserving our domain name, to be sure we didn?t get scuttled! & thanks scott for starting a dedicated bylaw wiki page over at freegeek.org. it will be a good place to start hashin out bylaws & related issues. you can find it at: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Vancouver%2C_BC%2C_Canada since this is a "talk page," it?s considered good form to sign your contributions. you will need to create a user name once you get there. to sign your post, type ~~~~ that?s four tildes (~) at the end of what your wrote. that will leave your username & timestamp. don?t be shy. if you?ve never edited a wiki before, just remember that most every monkey can do it, as long as that monkey is not afraid. worst comes to worst, we can always fix it. these pages will help you shush your fearful monkey: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:How_to_edit_a_page you can also practice editing in the sandbox: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Sandbox & if you?re frisky & want to see the conventions for talk pages, check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Talk_pages more help/info at http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Help:Contents !fny On 11/12/06, sean wrote: > > Great work to both of you! > > Good news that we have a name! It makes it easier to talk to people about > this venture when we can state who we are. > > Also, having a web presence will make it easier to focus people's attention > down to what we're doing. > > I really dig the timeline module! Can that be given its own page as well to > show a greater range of time? > > sean :o) > > > > agent humble wrote: > Yay! Good work. > > For my part I made the first pass at a website yesterday. In consultation > with > Ifny I installed Drupal 4.7.4 along with some extra modules and did some > basic configuration. You can check out the results at > http://freegeekvancouver.org > > Please create an account and you can begin contributing to our online > presence > although note that this is highly preliminary! > > Hello to PDX, David! > > Scott > > On Saturday 11 November 2006 10:10 am, David Repa wrote: > > > Greetings from PDX, > > Here is some interesting news - > > > BC OnLine: COMPANIES - NAME REQUEST > 06/11/10 Lterm: XPSP0054 For: PB85397 UNITED CHINESE COMMUNITY ENRIC > 12:50:33 > > > NR Number: NR8594836 ** REJECTED ** Expiry Date: N/A > > Client: DAVID J. REPA > > > *************************************************************************** > *** First Choice - * REJECTED * > > Name: FREE GEEK VANCOUVER > > Reason: * REQUIRE DESCRIPTIVE SECOND WORD OR PHRASE * > E.G. CONSTRUCTION, GARDENING, INVESTMENTS, HOLDINGS, ETC. > > > *************************************************************************** > *** > > Yes, our first road block with a happy ending. It didn't occur to me > that FG-PDX might have been registered under a different name. ifny > pointed out that the name one the website is actually "Free Geek > Community Technology Center". I made a call to Victoria to see if I > could plead stupidity and save having to do(and pay) for another name > request. > > I was quite sure that I would not hear from the Registry office till > next week. Much to my surprise it only took about an hour for them to > call me back. I was now talking with the very person who rejected the > name. After making it clear that we were trying to do something good > she simply said "What name would you like?" I gave her "Free Geek > Community Technology Center", which she said would fly, but I needed > to add one thing to the end "society, association, or club". So I > under the gun, and not wanting to miss this golden opportunity, took > Society. So, for 55 days we have reserved the name "Free Geek > Community Technology Centre Society". YEAH! > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > _______________________________________________ > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > From iamturnip at gmail.com Sun Nov 12 22:49:17 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:49:17 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, Below are some notes I jotted down while getting dirty at the mothership... ************** Receiving Area area includes keyboard, mice, and speaker testing room goods are sorted into bins, and larger objects taken back after being numbered examples of bins are pwr cables, coloured cables, cd's floppies, stuff for the store, laptops, metal, pure plastic, toner, mouse pads, ribbon cables, stuff bound for adv. testing(routers, modems etc), loose cards, to name a few. there is also a bin for CBM(copper bearing materials), things like floppy drives, old speaker etc go into it. Also there is a shopping buggy for cables to be destroyed(fills up quick) monitors are only kept if a)they are from 1998 and up, and are a min. of 17 inches. There are gaylords outside for instant disposal. 4 gaylords in total. One for monitors, one for scanner, one for printers, and one for keyboards. Mac items are all put into one area for later testing and sorting. area includes tools, and 3 hand carts receiving area also includes bins for paper waste, garbage, cardboard Some improvements could be made like - adding a tool wall(tools were always being misplaced or on floor), perhaps having a covered outside receiving area(rain), better signage example - keep all epson scanners or keep IEEE 1284 marked cables area could be closer to processing area, keep down travel time need different databasing program. Something that prints numbers as they are needed not vice versa. a system similar to that found in scrap yards. the need for this is to track what comes in and out. also it enables to guarantee working parts in store(as long as they have a number). Very similar to scrap cars. ********************* General Thoughts/Observations NO stairs! Must be handicap accessible. On Saturday there was three wheel chaired folks working there. They has access to all areas. Keep procedures simple and clear so new volunteers can start working right away with out much training. Signage with clear pictures etc. ************* Dismantling Area Tools! Lots of them. Sturdy work benches(wood). Gaylords for cords, pure plastic, motor items(not including HD), power supplies(cords cut), coloured wire, steel Improvements - better tool selection(hammers, pry bars, eye protection) it was mentioned that if the steel was compacted they would get more money. Perhaps design simple crusher? Look into assembly line style procedure?? Current system seemed not efficient. Visible first aid station ***************** Education! Don't let the geeks teach! Can "over talk" and lose peoples interest. Have separate class for more advance people that want to geek out. Must be ready to teach people who possible have very little education or can't read. Was given example of 70 yr old woman who did even know what a space bar was. Time to empower people not talk down to them. Simple class out line - cover inside hardware(mobo, pwr supply etc) cover outside hardware(what diff. cables look like, where they plug in etc) first boot, login name, power up and down a couple of times have students make list of goals(I want to... with my computer) take them over to the store, do some shopping(printer, DVD player etc) setup new hardware, run apt-get type program achieve goals run automatix to make realplayer, java etc work, box must be as usable as a winbloz box before they leave make sure their ISP works if they have dial up Ubuntu seems to be the distro of choice, many positive things about it, very user friendly, stable. From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sun Nov 12 22:58:29 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 22:58:29 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> Jump right in there David! Something to note about the receiving area is that with the computers themselves, both the outer shell of the case and the front are numbered. This is important as these pieces are later separated and can be difficult to match up later on. "have students make list of goals" I really like this idea for the teaching portion. It's easy to imagine that we know what a person needs to do, but it just isn't necessarily the case. Leaving the goals up to the student will allow us to facilitate what they already know they want. Perhaps we could then present a grand list of what we consider important skills and our reasoning and let students pick their way through what they feel up to. It'd be kind of like university, but even more self-directed and not hierarchical. sean :o) David Repa wrote: > Greetings, > > Below are some notes I jotted down while getting dirty at the > mothership... > > ************** > Receiving Area > > area includes keyboard, mice, and speaker testing room > > goods are sorted into bins, and larger objects taken back after being > numbered > > examples of bins are pwr cables, coloured cables, cd's floppies, stuff > for the store, laptops, metal, pure plastic, toner, mouse pads, ribbon > cables, stuff bound for adv. testing(routers, modems etc), loose > cards, to name a few. > > there is also a bin for CBM(copper bearing materials), things like > floppy drives, old speaker etc go into it. Also there is a shopping > buggy for cables to be destroyed(fills up quick) > > monitors are only kept if a)they are from 1998 and up, and are a min. > of 17 inches. There are gaylords outside for instant disposal. 4 > gaylords in total. One for monitors, one for scanner, one for > printers, and one for keyboards. > > Mac items are all put into one area for later testing and sorting. > > area includes tools, and 3 hand carts receiving area also includes > bins for paper waste, garbage, cardboard > > Some improvements could be made like - adding a tool wall(tools were > always being misplaced or on floor), perhaps having a covered outside > receiving area(rain), better signage example - keep all epson scanners > or keep IEEE 1284 marked > cables > > area could be closer to processing area, keep down travel time > > need different databasing program. Something that prints > numbers as they are needed not vice versa. a system similar > to that found in scrap yards. the need for this is to track > what comes in and out. also it enables to guarantee working > parts in store(as long as they have a number). Very similar > to scrap cars. > > > ********************* > General Thoughts/Observations > > NO stairs! Must be handicap accessible. On Saturday there was > three wheel chaired folks working there. They has access to > all areas. > > Keep procedures simple and clear so new volunteers can start > working right away with out much training. Signage with > clear pictures etc. > > ************* > Dismantling Area > > Tools! Lots of them. Sturdy work benches(wood). Gaylords for > cords, pure plastic, motor items(not including HD), power > supplies(cords cut), coloured wire, steel > > Improvements - better tool selection(hammers, pry bars, eye > protection) > > it was mentioned that if the steel was compacted they would > get more money. Perhaps design simple crusher? > > Look into assembly line style procedure?? > > Current system seemed not efficient. > > Visible first aid station > > > ***************** > Education! > > Don't let the geeks teach! Can "over talk" and lose peoples > interest. Have separate class for more advance people that > want to geek out. > > Must be ready to teach people who possible have very little > education or can't read. Was given example of 70 yr old woman > who did even know what a space bar was. Time to empower > people not talk down to them. > > Simple class out line - > > cover inside hardware(mobo, pwr supply etc) > cover outside hardware(what diff. cables look like, where they > plug in etc) > first boot, login name, power up and down a couple of times > have students make list of goals(I want to... with my > computer) > take them over to the store, do some shopping(printer, DVD > player etc) > setup new hardware, run apt-get type program achieve goals > run automatix to make realplayer, java etc work, box must be as > usable as a winbloz box > before they leave make sure their ISP works if they have dial > up > > Ubuntu seems to be the distro of choice, many positive things > about it, very user friendly, stable. > _______________________________________________ > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 12 23:16:23 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 23:16:23 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes In-Reply-To: <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611122316y27c36261u410905fc0d92c60e@mail.gmail.com> this is great david, the next best thing to being there! ubuntu, eh? let the games begin! i love the idea of the students making a list of goals too. one of the things thats blows my mind about opening up to self-selecting people is that they usually know what they want...depressing how much energy in the world goes into convincing them otherwise...& agree so much about their box being just as useful as windoze. we?re there to heal the rift between ppl & tech, not increase it! maybe the steel crusher could be some kind of vice design? one thing though: can somebody tell me what the heck a gaylord is? i tried dictionary.com, wikipedia, the urban dictionary & google. ended up with a reference to ben stiller, the gaylord texas resort & a bit of a homophobic plat de jour. oh, and it?s a man?s name... i?m assuming it?s a kind of bin? cheers !fny On 11/12/06, sean wrote: > Jump right in there David! > > Something to note about the receiving area is that with the computers > themselves, both the outer shell of the case and the front are numbered. > This is important as these pieces are later separated and can be > difficult to match up later on. > > "have students make list of goals" > > I really like this idea for the teaching portion. It's easy to imagine > that we know what a person needs to do, but it just isn't necessarily > the case. Leaving the goals up to the student will allow us to > facilitate what they already know they want. Perhaps we could then > present a grand list of what we consider important skills and our > reasoning and let students pick their way through what they feel up to. > It'd be kind of like university, but even more self-directed and not > hierarchical. > > sean :o) > > > David Repa wrote: > > Greetings, > > > > Below are some notes I jotted down while getting dirty at the > > mothership... > > > > ************** > > Receiving Area > > > > area includes keyboard, mice, and speaker testing room > > > > goods are sorted into bins, and larger objects taken back after being > > numbered > > > > examples of bins are pwr cables, coloured cables, cd's floppies, stuff > > for the store, laptops, metal, pure plastic, toner, mouse pads, ribbon > > cables, stuff bound for adv. testing(routers, modems etc), loose > > cards, to name a few. > > > > there is also a bin for CBM(copper bearing materials), things like > > floppy drives, old speaker etc go into it. Also there is a shopping > > buggy for cables to be destroyed(fills up quick) > > > > monitors are only kept if a)they are from 1998 and up, and are a min. > > of 17 inches. There are gaylords outside for instant disposal. 4 > > gaylords in total. One for monitors, one for scanner, one for > > printers, and one for keyboards. > > > > Mac items are all put into one area for later testing and sorting. > > > > area includes tools, and 3 hand carts receiving area also includes > > bins for paper waste, garbage, cardboard > > > > Some improvements could be made like - adding a tool wall(tools were > > always being misplaced or on floor), perhaps having a covered outside > > receiving area(rain), better signage example - keep all epson scanners > > or keep IEEE 1284 marked > > cables > > > > area could be closer to processing area, keep down travel time > > > > need different databasing program. Something that prints > > numbers as they are needed not vice versa. a system similar > > to that found in scrap yards. the need for this is to track > > what comes in and out. also it enables to guarantee working > > parts in store(as long as they have a number). Very similar > > to scrap cars. > > > > > > ********************* > > General Thoughts/Observations > > > > NO stairs! Must be handicap accessible. On Saturday there was > > three wheel chaired folks working there. They has access to > > all areas. > > > > Keep procedures simple and clear so new volunteers can start > > working right away with out much training. Signage with > > clear pictures etc. > > > > ************* > > Dismantling Area > > > > Tools! Lots of them. Sturdy work benches(wood). Gaylords for > > cords, pure plastic, motor items(not including HD), power > > supplies(cords cut), coloured wire, steel > > > > Improvements - better tool selection(hammers, pry bars, eye > > protection) > > > > it was mentioned that if the steel was compacted they would > > get more money. Perhaps design simple crusher? > > > > Look into assembly line style procedure?? > > > > Current system seemed not efficient. > > > > Visible first aid station > > > > > > ***************** > > Education! > > > > Don't let the geeks teach! Can "over talk" and lose peoples > > interest. Have separate class for more advance people that > > want to geek out. > > > > Must be ready to teach people who possible have very little > > education or can't read. Was given example of 70 yr old woman > > who did even know what a space bar was. Time to empower > > people not talk down to them. > > > > Simple class out line - > > > > cover inside hardware(mobo, pwr supply etc) > > cover outside hardware(what diff. cables look like, where they > > plug in etc) > > first boot, login name, power up and down a couple of times > > have students make list of goals(I want to... with my > > computer) > > take them over to the store, do some shopping(printer, DVD > > player etc) > > setup new hardware, run apt-get type program achieve goals > > run automatix to make realplayer, java etc work, box must be as > > usable as a winbloz box > > before they leave make sure their ISP works if they have dial > > up > > > > Ubuntu seems to be the distro of choice, many positive things > > about it, very user friendly, stable. > > _______________________________________________ > > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > _______________________________________________ > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From iamlachance at gmail.com Mon Nov 13 00:49:05 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 00:49:05 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611122316y27c36261u410905fc0d92c60e@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> <3d895eaf0611122316y27c36261u410905fc0d92c60e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611130049s3eabdadvdad29a2342fec61a@mail.gmail.com> okay, i figured it out all on my own! "the gaylords & their struggle" http://www.gaylords712.com/struggle.html On 11/12/06, ifny wrote: > this is great david, the next best thing to being there! > > ubuntu, eh? let the games begin! > > i love the idea of the students making a list of goals too. one of the > things thats blows my mind about opening up to self-selecting people > is that they usually know what they want...depressing how much energy > in the world goes into convincing them otherwise...& agree so much > about their box being just as useful as windoze. we?re there to heal > the rift between ppl & tech, not increase it! > > maybe the steel crusher could be some kind of vice design? > > one thing though: can somebody tell me what the heck a gaylord is? i > tried dictionary.com, wikipedia, the urban dictionary & google. ended > up with a reference to ben stiller, the gaylord texas resort & a bit > of a homophobic plat de jour. oh, and it?s a man?s name... > > i?m assuming it?s a kind of bin? > > cheers > > !fny > > > > > On 11/12/06, sean wrote: > > Jump right in there David! > > > > Something to note about the receiving area is that with the computers > > themselves, both the outer shell of the case and the front are numbered. > > This is important as these pieces are later separated and can be > > difficult to match up later on. > > > > "have students make list of goals" > > > > I really like this idea for the teaching portion. It's easy to imagine > > that we know what a person needs to do, but it just isn't necessarily > > the case. Leaving the goals up to the student will allow us to > > facilitate what they already know they want. Perhaps we could then > > present a grand list of what we consider important skills and our > > reasoning and let students pick their way through what they feel up to. > > It'd be kind of like university, but even more self-directed and not > > hierarchical. > > > > sean :o) > > > > > > David Repa wrote: > > > Greetings, > > > > > > Below are some notes I jotted down while getting dirty at the > > > mothership... > > > > > > ************** > > > Receiving Area > > > > > > area includes keyboard, mice, and speaker testing room > > > > > > goods are sorted into bins, and larger objects taken back after being > > > numbered > > > > > > examples of bins are pwr cables, coloured cables, cd's floppies, stuff > > > for the store, laptops, metal, pure plastic, toner, mouse pads, ribbon > > > cables, stuff bound for adv. testing(routers, modems etc), loose > > > cards, to name a few. > > > > > > there is also a bin for CBM(copper bearing materials), things like > > > floppy drives, old speaker etc go into it. Also there is a shopping > > > buggy for cables to be destroyed(fills up quick) > > > > > > monitors are only kept if a)they are from 1998 and up, and are a min. > > > of 17 inches. There are gaylords outside for instant disposal. 4 > > > gaylords in total. One for monitors, one for scanner, one for > > > printers, and one for keyboards. > > > > > > Mac items are all put into one area for later testing and sorting. > > > > > > area includes tools, and 3 hand carts receiving area also includes > > > bins for paper waste, garbage, cardboard > > > > > > Some improvements could be made like - adding a tool wall(tools were > > > always being misplaced or on floor), perhaps having a covered outside > > > receiving area(rain), better signage example - keep all epson scanners > > > or keep IEEE 1284 marked > > > cables > > > > > > area could be closer to processing area, keep down travel time > > > > > > need different databasing program. Something that prints > > > numbers as they are needed not vice versa. a system similar > > > to that found in scrap yards. the need for this is to track > > > what comes in and out. also it enables to guarantee working > > > parts in store(as long as they have a number). Very similar > > > to scrap cars. > > > > > > > > > ********************* > > > General Thoughts/Observations > > > > > > NO stairs! Must be handicap accessible. On Saturday there was > > > three wheel chaired folks working there. They has access to > > > all areas. > > > > > > Keep procedures simple and clear so new volunteers can start > > > working right away with out much training. Signage with > > > clear pictures etc. > > > > > > ************* > > > Dismantling Area > > > > > > Tools! Lots of them. Sturdy work benches(wood). Gaylords for > > > cords, pure plastic, motor items(not including HD), power > > > supplies(cords cut), coloured wire, steel > > > > > > Improvements - better tool selection(hammers, pry bars, eye > > > protection) > > > > > > it was mentioned that if the steel was compacted they would > > > get more money. Perhaps design simple crusher? > > > > > > Look into assembly line style procedure?? > > > > > > Current system seemed not efficient. > > > > > > Visible first aid station > > > > > > > > > ***************** > > > Education! > > > > > > Don't let the geeks teach! Can "over talk" and lose peoples > > > interest. Have separate class for more advance people that > > > want to geek out. > > > > > > Must be ready to teach people who possible have very little > > > education or can't read. Was given example of 70 yr old woman > > > who did even know what a space bar was. Time to empower > > > people not talk down to them. > > > > > > Simple class out line - > > > > > > cover inside hardware(mobo, pwr supply etc) > > > cover outside hardware(what diff. cables look like, where they > > > plug in etc) > > > first boot, login name, power up and down a couple of times > > > have students make list of goals(I want to... with my > > > computer) > > > take them over to the store, do some shopping(printer, DVD > > > player etc) > > > setup new hardware, run apt-get type program achieve goals > > > run automatix to make realplayer, java etc work, box must be as > > > usable as a winbloz box > > > before they leave make sure their ISP works if they have dial > > > up > > > > > > Ubuntu seems to be the distro of choice, many positive things > > > about it, very user friendly, stable. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > _______________________________________________ > > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Mon Nov 13 01:20:48 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:20:48 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611130049s3eabdadvdad29a2342fec61a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> <3d895eaf0611122316y27c36261u410905fc0d92c60e@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611130049s3eabdadvdad29a2342fec61a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <455838F0.5060000@seanhill.ca> Wow they sound kinda tough, do you think they'll be happy to take our monitors, printers, and scanners? ;o) I'm probably not going to explain this as well as David did for me, but I understand a gaylord to be a unit of measure in the recycling biz. A gaylord is a volume of some material or object which is shipped and then sold/purchased by weight. The gaylord itself is just a suitable container which allows items which might not otherwise pack very well to be efficiently stored and counted. Wikipedia has a disambiguation entry with a possible match near the bottom, but it doesn't lead to an article. David can correct me if I'm off base. sean :o) ifny wrote: > okay, i figured it out all on my own! > > "the gaylords & their struggle" > > http://www.gaylords712.com/struggle.html > > > > On 11/12/06, ifny wrote: >> this is great david, the next best thing to being there! >> >> ubuntu, eh? let the games begin! >> >> i love the idea of the students making a list of goals too. one of the >> things thats blows my mind about opening up to self-selecting people >> is that they usually know what they want...depressing how much energy >> in the world goes into convincing them otherwise...& agree so much >> about their box being just as useful as windoze. we?re there to heal >> the rift between ppl & tech, not increase it! >> >> maybe the steel crusher could be some kind of vice design? >> >> one thing though: can somebody tell me what the heck a gaylord is? i >> tried dictionary.com, wikipedia, the urban dictionary & google. ended >> up with a reference to ben stiller, the gaylord texas resort & a bit >> of a homophobic plat de jour. oh, and it?s a man?s name... >> >> i?m assuming it?s a kind of bin? >> >> cheers >> >> !fny >> >> >> >> >> On 11/12/06, sean wrote: >> > Jump right in there David! >> > >> > Something to note about the receiving area is that with the computers >> > themselves, both the outer shell of the case and the front are >> numbered. >> > This is important as these pieces are later separated and can be >> > difficult to match up later on. >> > >> > "have students make list of goals" >> > >> > I really like this idea for the teaching portion. It's easy to imagine >> > that we know what a person needs to do, but it just isn't necessarily >> > the case. Leaving the goals up to the student will allow us to >> > facilitate what they already know they want. Perhaps we could then >> > present a grand list of what we consider important skills and our >> > reasoning and let students pick their way through what they feel up >> to. >> > It'd be kind of like university, but even more self-directed and not >> > hierarchical. >> > >> > sean :o) >> > >> > >> > David Repa wrote: >> > > Greetings, >> > > >> > > Below are some notes I jotted down while getting dirty at the >> > > mothership... >> > > >> > > ************** >> > > Receiving Area >> > > >> > > area includes keyboard, mice, and speaker testing room >> > > >> > > goods are sorted into bins, and larger objects taken back after >> being >> > > numbered >> > > >> > > examples of bins are pwr cables, coloured cables, cd's floppies, >> stuff >> > > for the store, laptops, metal, pure plastic, toner, mouse pads, >> ribbon >> > > cables, stuff bound for adv. testing(routers, modems etc), loose >> > > cards, to name a few. >> > > >> > > there is also a bin for CBM(copper bearing materials), things like >> > > floppy drives, old speaker etc go into it. Also there is a shopping >> > > buggy for cables to be destroyed(fills up quick) >> > > >> > > monitors are only kept if a)they are from 1998 and up, and are a >> min. >> > > of 17 inches. There are gaylords outside for instant disposal. 4 >> > > gaylords in total. One for monitors, one for scanner, one for >> > > printers, and one for keyboards. >> > > >> > > Mac items are all put into one area for later testing and sorting. >> > > >> > > area includes tools, and 3 hand carts receiving area also includes >> > > bins for paper waste, garbage, cardboard >> > > >> > > Some improvements could be made like - adding a tool wall(tools were >> > > always being misplaced or on floor), perhaps having a covered >> outside >> > > receiving area(rain), better signage example - keep all epson >> scanners >> > > or keep IEEE 1284 marked >> > > cables >> > > >> > > area could be closer to processing area, keep down travel time >> > > >> > > need different databasing program. Something that prints >> > > numbers as they are needed not vice versa. a system similar >> > > to that found in scrap yards. the need for this is to track >> > > what comes in and out. also it enables to guarantee working >> > > parts in store(as long as they have a number). Very similar >> > > to scrap cars. >> > > >> > > >> > > ********************* >> > > General Thoughts/Observations >> > > >> > > NO stairs! Must be handicap accessible. On Saturday there was >> > > three wheel chaired folks working there. They has access to >> > > all areas. >> > > >> > > Keep procedures simple and clear so new volunteers can start >> > > working right away with out much training. Signage with >> > > clear pictures etc. >> > > >> > > ************* >> > > Dismantling Area >> > > >> > > Tools! Lots of them. Sturdy work benches(wood). Gaylords for >> > > cords, pure plastic, motor items(not including HD), power >> > > supplies(cords cut), coloured wire, steel >> > > >> > > Improvements - better tool selection(hammers, pry bars, eye >> > > protection) >> > > >> > > it was mentioned that if the steel was compacted they would >> > > get more money. Perhaps design simple crusher? >> > > >> > > Look into assembly line style procedure?? >> > > >> > > Current system seemed not efficient. >> > > >> > > Visible first aid station >> > > >> > > >> > > ***************** >> > > Education! >> > > >> > > Don't let the geeks teach! Can "over talk" and lose peoples >> > > interest. Have separate class for more advance people that >> > > want to geek out. >> > > >> > > Must be ready to teach people who possible have very little >> > > education or can't read. Was given example of 70 yr old woman >> > > who did even know what a space bar was. Time to empower >> > > people not talk down to them. >> > > >> > > Simple class out line - >> > > >> > > cover inside hardware(mobo, pwr supply etc) >> > > cover outside hardware(what diff. cables look like, where they >> > > plug in etc) >> > > first boot, login name, power up and down a couple of times >> > > have students make list of goals(I want to... with my >> > > computer) >> > > take them over to the store, do some shopping(printer, DVD >> > > player etc) >> > > setup new hardware, run apt-get type program achieve goals >> > > run automatix to make realplayer, java etc work, box must be as >> > > usable as a winbloz box >> > > before they leave make sure their ISP works if they have dial >> > > up >> > > >> > > Ubuntu seems to be the distro of choice, many positive things >> > > about it, very user friendly, stable. >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > http://vancouverfreegeek.org >> > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd >> millennium' >> > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> > _______________________________________________ >> > http://vancouverfreegeek.org >> > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd >> millennium' >> > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van >> > >> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > http://vancouverfreegeek.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iamlachance at gmail.com Mon Nov 13 01:59:49 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 01:59:49 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] old article, but cute Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611130159s39b156d6j6d8266a915688b8f@mail.gmail.com> SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/161951_freegeek25.html Free Geek recycles computers -- for free Oregon man wanted hazardous material out of landfills Wednesday, February 25, 2004 THE ASSOCIATED PRESS PORTLAND -- Oso Martin had a dream -- collect old computers, teach volunteers to fix them, give the good ones away to good causes and make sure the rest are responsibly recycled. He made that dream come true when he launched Free Geek on Earth Day 2000. There were times, especially in the first year, when Free Geek almost didn't get off the ground. Finding people willing to donate old computers wasn't the problem. Paying for a place to store and refurbish them was. At one point, Free Geek owed $12,000 in back rent. Today, Free Geek not only is current on its rent, it has expanded its space twice. Even with its success, Free Geek continues to reflect Martin's community values. Everything from furnishings to the toilet paper is donated. Everyone is equal. The core staff -- 13 people, including Martin -- earn the same pay. "The receptionist makes the same amount of money as me, and I think that's appropriate. Her job is just as hard as mine. It's just different," says Martin, who earns about $17,000 a year. In some ways, Free Geek is uniquely Oregon. But its power is moving beyond Oregon, as people in other states are beginning to recognize the work Martin has done. Lately, Martin has been asked to help establish a Free Geek operation in Lancaster County, Pa. Another guy e-mailed from South Bend, Ind., asking if he could use the name for his computer recycling operation. The Environmental Protection Agency estimates there are 315 million obsolete computers, monitors and other peripherals in the country, containing an estimated 1 billion pounds of lead, 2 billion pounds of cadmium and 400,000 pounds of mercury. Almost everyone agrees that these toxic materials should not be disposed in the country's landfills, where they might leach into groundwater. There's widespread disagreement, however, about how obsolete computers should be handled and who should pay for it. A private donor gave Martin enough money to start Free Geek. But the organization won its big break when it received a $40,000 grant from the state Department of Environmental Quality and the city of Portland in 2001. Other public and private grant money has trickled in. Then, Free Geek received $159,000 in the summer from the Meyer Memorial Trust, a Portland-based foundation that supports a broad spectrum of non-profit efforts in Oregon and Clark County, Wash. Martin isn't stuck on any one interpretation of what Free Geek means. "You're freeing your inner geek. You're becoming a geek for free. It's about freedom and doing that in a geeky way," he says with a smile. (c) 1998-2006 Seattle Post-Intelligencer From iamturnip at gmail.com Mon Nov 13 14:39:23 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 14:39:23 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Day 1 rough notes In-Reply-To: <455838F0.5060000@seanhill.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0611122249g180d179fp6afccd0cb2a29664@mail.gmail.com> <45581795.5050505@seanhill.ca> <3d895eaf0611122316y27c36261u410905fc0d92c60e@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611130049s3eabdadvdad29a2342fec61a@mail.gmail.com> <455838F0.5060000@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611131439gcf700f0t92162bbd7ca090e3@mail.gmail.com> Gaylord - a big huge freakin box on a skid. http://www.hilcoind.com/flyers/APX/June13/Catalog/1245.jpg to give you an idea. Although we wouldn't pack 'em like that, that would be rude. -- David From humble at resist.ca Mon Nov 13 20:07:43 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 20:07:43 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Fwd: [board-list] Volunteers to help with the AGM Message-ID: <200611132007.43607.humble@resist.ca> hi freegeekers, here is a mesg from the VCN BoD list all about our upcoming AGM (Nov. 30 - 7th anniversary of N30 Seattle - whoot!). i'm forwarding it here to give you a sense of the preparation that we are in the middle of. cheers, ~s ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- Subject: [board-list] Volunteers to help with the AGM Date: Monday 13 November 2006 7:30 pm From: James Sayre To: "board-list at vcn.bc.ca" For the issues we've listing under Discussions at the end of the AGM agenda (copied below), we need a person or small panel to introduce each item, and then to deal with questions and comments from the floor. The AGM is a place for members to participate, so we should keep our portions as short as possible. 1. Unless new legislation has been introduced, we don't need to spend much time on lawful access, etc. - we can report briefly that we think it's coming, and that we're still committed to defending members' privacy to the fullest extent allowed by law. (We passed a special motion to that effect at the 2001 AGM.). Richard Rosenberg has decided not to run again, If he's present, he should do the report; otherwise, I can. 2. We could have a small panel of our own experts talk about both mesh networking and municipal wireless together. 3. We could also have a small panel talk about linux for home computing. If there's an executive member of VanLUG who would like to tell the group about the support which it can offer to new linux users, i think that would be quite appropriate. If it's feasible to have a projector available so that we can show people some of the cool things linux can now do, that might be fun - and persuasive. Or we can leave that until after the discussions. 4. Scott should describe the Freegeek project. Deciding whether to be a sponsor isn't a membership type decision, but if there's no opposition, we might do so at the brief pre-AGM board meeting. Are there any volunteers to help with these discussions? Also, I'll probably be in court continuously from the beginning of next week until the end of the month. I should be able to attend the pre-AGM board meeting and the AGM itself OK, but if there are any last minute details to be decided, please refer to Richard and/or post them to the list and we'll try to get them decided online. Jim Here's the agenda: * * * Vancouver Community Network - Annual General Meeting * * * 7 pm. November 30, 2006 3rd floor, 411 Dunsmuir Street, Vancouver, BC AGENDA ------ 1. Call to order 7pm. 2. Approval of Agenda 3. Approval of Minutes of 2005 AGM 4. President's Report 5. Auditor's Report 6. Appointment of Auditor 7. Member Business 8. New Board Member Nominations 9. Volunteer Recognition 10. Adjournment Everyone is welcome to the meeting but only members can vote. Panel Discussions - 8 pm: VCN's long range plans and upcoming issues: - Proposed legal changes that threaten members' privacy; - Mesh networking, and its potential benefits for internet access at reduced cost; - Municipal wireless developments in BC and elsewhere. VCN's possible role in a Vancouver solution (the community forum concept); - Developments in the practicality of Linux for home computing; - FreeGeek Vancouver opportunities for VCN. (END) -- Please send or copy all email to jimsayre at telus.net. -- Community Legal Assistance Society Per: James Sayre Suite 300, 1140 West Pender Street Vancouver, B.C. V6E 4G1 Tel: 604 685-3425 (68-LEGAL) Fax: 604 685-7611 Toll Free BC: 1-888-685-6222 E-Mail Address: jimsayre at telus.net Alternate Email: jsayre at clasbc.net or jfsayre at vcn.bc.ca ------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: message-footer.txt URL: From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 01:26:19 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:26:19 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Free Geek's open path to prosperity - another old article to excite ye Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611140126q3c223e73o7c0de03b451f9351@mail.gmail.com> http://portland.bizjournals.com/portland/stories/2004/01/19/story4.html?t=printable Free Geek's open path to prosperity The nonprofit organization helps others afford technology Portland Business Journal - January 16, 2004 by Shelly Strom Business Journal staff writer Three years after being founded on the eve of an economic recession, nonprofit computer recycler and refurbisher Free Geek is not only surviving but is poised to prosper by helping out its brethren in the nonprofit community. In an attempt to find homes for an ever-growing volume of refurbished computers, Free Geek is embarking on a project that provides low-cost computer systems and consulting services to other nonprofits. So far, the organization has rebuilt more than 3,000 "new" computers, all of which operate on open source software, a low-cost alternative to proprietary systems such as Windows. "We see that open source can be a great benefit to nonprofits. We certainly have been able to save a lot of money in that regard. And with our collaborative technologies project, we want to pass that on," said Free Geek founder Oso Martin. Free Geek employs 14 full-time staffers, has taken over an entire city block and is on track to generate revenue at a self-sustaining level by the fourth quarter of 2005. The organization used $159,000 from Meyer Memorial Trust to boost capacity by expanding into an unused portion of its building and to hire a staffer to coordinate collaborative technologies. Meyer Memorial, which has an endowment of $470 million and is one of the state's largest foundations, is upbeat about the potential for Free Geek to provide relatively low-cost computer systems. "We were seeing a substantial increase in technology-related requests from nonprofits," said Meyer Memorial Executive Director Doug Stamm. After talking to Free Geek in detail, Stamm said that he and other trust officials realized the wide-ranging implication of reducing technology costs among the scores of nonprofits supported by Meyer Memorial. Meyer Memorial now requests that technology grant applicants consult with Free Geek to determine whether lower-cost open source software might be a solution. "It is still early in the relationship, but we are very optimistic. To some extent, they are somewhat social visionaries and are providing not only a model for Portland and the state, but really a national model." Systems and software maintained by the nonprofit Open Source Initiative allow a personal computer to perform the same functions as any Windows-based PC but for a fraction of the cost. The systems use computer code known as "open source software" because access to it is not restricted and it can easily and cost-effectively be adapted to the needs of the user. Open source applications are gaining acceptance by businesses, institutions and other organizations. For example, Free Geek is working for HomeStreet, a Washington County nonprofit mental health clinic that needs a patient records management system. By using open source systems, Free Geek expects to complete the project for approximately one-third the cost of a $150,000 bid provided by a consultant that didn't plan to use open source software. "We will be developing a full patient tracking system for HomeStreet in open source," said Ron Braithwaite, collaborative technologies coordinator at Free Geek. "I've been contacted by approximately 27 people who want to work on the project who have, on average, between 10 and 15 years experience. Two are Ph.D.s," Braithwaite said. Free Geek will hire software developers as independent contractors. HomeStreet will receive consultant labor for $75 an hour--one-half the market hourly rate. That fee will be divided into thirds, with portions going to the contractor, Free Geek and an account set aside to pay contractors who are called on to work for nonprofits without the ability to pay. Finding contractors to work for one- or two-thirds less than pay offered for jobs with for-profits does not appear to be a problem, Braithwaite said. "Portland unemployment has been among the highest in the nation, especially among high-tech workers, who face a 'use it or lose it' situation. People are willing to go to work for us to keep their resumes fresh." Free Geek--run by a skeleton team of staffers and a crew of nearly 300 volunteers--started with a mission to save landfills from as much computer-related toxic waste as possible. Since its founding, Free Geek has received more than 600 tons of computers and related hardware. Out of that mountain of wires, silicon, leaded glass and plastic, 3,000 "new" computers have been created and given away to all kinds of entities in need--from local schools to villages around the planet. Computers, monitors, printers and other corollary devices arrive daily at Free Geek's Southeast Portland facility, delivered by individuals, companies and other organizations looking to get rid of their obsolete hardware. Contact Shelly Strom at sstrom at bizjournals.com. From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 01:50:45 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 01:50:45 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> sniffing around freegeek chicago, i rather think their website is cute & clean. wonder if we should make a splash page that was less stuffed? http://www.freegeekchicago.org/ we could do something sassy like http://fearlessgearless.com/ (er, not like that, but something simple & fun/clickable) oh, & looks like we?re not the only ones who like bikes: http://www.freegeekchicago.org/pages/content/resources.php?resource_category_id=3 http://www.freegeekchicago.org/pipermail/talk_freegeekchicago.org/2006-October/000321.html From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 02:10:45 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 02:10:45 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] registered IRC channel #freegeek irc.indymedia.org Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611140210h7f3f1d29y72385d21c8998752@mail.gmail.com> ok so there?s an IRC salon that never has last call...it?s byob though :P feel free to poke your head in anytime: room is #freegeek channel is irc.indymedia.org you can use port 6667, or 994 to be secure with SSL it?s a great place to hash out ideas, play Q&A in realtime, or just hang out & get to know one another. during the last called IRC meeting nov 8, it was decided that no binding decisions should ever be made in IRC (no, the irony was not lost on the participants). at any rate, it would be dang impossible since consensus lies beyond the abilities of IRC. If you?ve never used it before, IRC (internet chat relay) has a lot in common with other chat software you may have used (yahoo / m$n messenger, jabber, gmail chat, etc). There are 2 ways you can join the conversation: The simplest way is to go to http://chat.indymedia.org For "Nickname:" type in any nickname you like. For "Extra channels (',' separated): type #freegeek Look below that & you'll see that #Indymedia is selected by default. Click it to deselect it. Click the "Chat!" button. you're in! Type & hit enter when you wanna send. The other way to join is to install an irc client & connect through that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients if anyone needs help getting up & running, email me, david or scott. !fny From kristenmiedema at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 08:41:21 2006 From: kristenmiedema at gmail.com (Kristen Miedema) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 08:41:21 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: for someone who is not terrible familiar with free geek (yet... i have been doing a lot of reading) i found the chicago web site great! Easy to get around, full of information, yet to the point. kristen. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From humble at resist.ca Tue Nov 14 10:53:17 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 10:53:17 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> Good call - I agree. However I see an evolution to a site like Chicago's coinciding with getting more in place and that would see our current site become more of an internal site (FreeGeekHQ?). Right now it's our face to the public but the public hasn't heard of us so it's really just our face to ourselves and is about generating excitement and helping keep us all with the program. When we go to launch our depot and storefront we will want to move to something like Chicago's site so that the public, just hearing about us for the first time and coming to check us out, doesn't get overwhelmed with definition's of open source and aptgetanarchy feeds, etc. ;-). ~s On Tuesday 14 November 2006 8:41 am, Kristen Miedema wrote: > for someone who is not terrible familiar with free geek (yet... i have been > doing a lot of reading) > i found the chicago web site great! Easy to get around, full of > information, yet to the point. > > kristen. From iamturnip at gmail.com Tue Nov 14 18:21:17 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 18:21:17 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611141821s3d43e974xd3c404f6495e6512@mail.gmail.com> The fact that we already have a website is exciting to me. It is nice to see people responding to it on the list here and comparing it with some other sites. Personally I have always liked simple to the point sites. I think Scott hit the nail on the head with his comments. Once we are ready for a grand opening, I think a more simple site will work better for us. From matteo at freegeek.org Tue Nov 14 19:09:42 2006 From: matteo at freegeek.org (matteo) Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 19:09:42 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] FG PDX intros + registered IRC channel #freegeek irc.indymedia.org In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611140210h7f3f1d29y72385d21c8998752@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611140210h7f3f1d29y72385d21c8998752@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20061115030941.GB7384@fgdefault> Hello, My name is Matteo, I'm way down here at Free Geek in Portland. I'm a long time volunteer here. Also joining your list is Shawn our volunteer program coordinator. It's a awesome task your group has decided to take on. We are very excited for you. We also have a IRC channel feal free to join at any time to ask questions, or to lurk. http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/IRC Matteo On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 02:10:45AM -0800, ifny said: > ok so there??s an IRC salon that never has last call...it??s byob though :P > > feel free to poke your head in anytime: > > room is #freegeek > channel is irc.indymedia.org > you can use port 6667, or 994 to be secure with SSL > > it??s a great place to hash out ideas, play Q&A in realtime, or just > hang out & get to know one another. during the last called IRC meeting > nov 8, it was decided that no binding decisions should ever be made in > IRC (no, the irony was not lost on the participants). at any rate, it > would be dang impossible since consensus lies beyond the abilities of > IRC. > > If you??ve never used it before, IRC (internet chat relay) has a lot in > common with other chat software you may have used (yahoo / m$n > messenger, jabber, gmail chat, etc). There are 2 ways you can join the > conversation: > > The simplest way is to go to http://chat.indymedia.org > For "Nickname:" type in any nickname you like. > For "Extra channels (',' separated): type #freegeek > Look below that & you'll see that #Indymedia is selected by default. > Click it to deselect it. > Click the "Chat!" button. you're in! Type & hit enter when you wanna send. > > The other way to join is to install an irc client & connect through > that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat#Clients > > if anyone needs help getting up & running, email me, david or scott. > > > !fny > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Wed Nov 15 02:35:25 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 02:35:25 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611150235t5d3523c6h40072cee813aa277@mail.gmail.com> but i thought the whole point of FG-V was to overwhelm the public with aptgetanarchy? damn...well i?ll try to self-censor then, til the revolution at least ;) if people haven?t done so lately, they should take a boo at http://freegeekvancouver.org couple new surprises (including david?s report from the PDX trenches!). scott, david, i hear your points. yes, we need a place to be with each other, communications-wise & also keeping up to date, especially for those who are busy but want to stay involved, or those who are just coming on board. however to my mind it?s essential that we continually keep engagement in mind, our public face. the more buzz we get, the more volunteers we get, & the more connections & resources, donations will come our way. very soon we?re going to need people, hey, we already do! the more the merrier, & i think it?s never to early to attract ?em. i?ve been kind of pondering how to make the site multipurpose. i don?t wanna speak for scott, but my own focus on the site has been FG-V news/community oriented, as well as giving a sense of momentum, encouraging people to participate, giving them ways to find info & get up to speed. oh, & making it slick, making the formatting consistent. now there?s enough there to pull people into communications loops, FG-V infrastructure. kirsten, i very much appreciate what you said about chicago. not because i agree with you (which i of course do), but because you have a fresh perspective, & that?s really helpful at this point. we need to be user-friendly in all aspects, at all times, starting now. i?d be interested to hear what you think of the freegeekvancouver site, & everyone else too. scott?s put a wishlist up on the wiki if anyone has suggestions: http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Vancouver%2C_BC%2C_Canada so for example, a splash page, or initial simple directory could be a way to be welcoming. (please note: i can fiddle my way through drupal but i can?t write html or code anything else for that matter, so if we end up deciding to pursue this, perhaps someone can volunteer to help develop it? if no one has the time/ability combo, i?m sure we will attract that person soon enough.). i?m comfortable enough with the site?s content to direct media/govt there. we?re almost there i think, esp since we are able to generate a lot of our own buzz. in fact it?s already happening -- david came on my biker radio show last week, just to say hi. there was call-in interest & the station tech guy emailed me later wanting to volunteer -- i?ve never met him btw. all sorts of people are trickling into the site & that will increase over the next several months, from prospective landlords, to donors/corporations, to reporters, to nonprofits with charitable tax status we may want to partner with, to city bureaucrats...you get my drift. sorry to lay it on so thick! :P i?d like to see us coordinating outreach with our other activities. having a regular weekly meet-up, as scott suggested on irc, is a great idea. it will give us a way to get business done, as well as allowing the public to come down & ?meet the creature.? maybe we can find a night of the week that is good for everyone? also, though, having a regular weekly build/tutorial/teach-in night where people can come to a place & learn, or peer-teach, or learn how to teach, could start immediately. cutting our teeth as it were, refining our process, troubleshooting. & those early learners will become strong volunteers when we need them! if you look at what happened to FGPDX, they got to a certain level where adoptions took off & they couldn?t keep up. that will be us. we need to plant seeds with volunteers *now*. space is available should we want it for a teach-in night at the purple thistle http://purplethistle.ca (clark & venables). we could probably keep a couple linux machines there permanently. it would be neat to combine that with the weekly bike teach-ins they have. nice crossover. we don?t have to wait to have our own space to be free geek. we already are free geek! the sooner we start unleashing unicorns & rainbows on the world the better. one of the strengths of full transparency is that we don?t have to present a polished face. we just have to be strategic, resourceful, ernest. & get on with business. the things we undertake, we should try to do well. i see time refining the public website & a teach-in night as an investment in FG?s future. as a side note, i understand that others are perhaps not as confident in transparency (read: going off half-cocked) as i am :) i?m a person who flies by the seat of her pants naturally... ...but one thing i would argue in the capitol: how immensely transparency empowers, how immediately. and how powerfully its harbinger draws people in. it makes people bold to see that perfection is not expected, that everyone?s doing the best they can, workin shizz out. that?s my $220. sorry to be so wordy! ifny On 11/14/06, agent humble wrote: > Good call - I agree. However I see an evolution to a site like Chicago's > coinciding with getting more in place and that would see our current site > become more of an internal site (FreeGeekHQ?). Right now it's our face to the > public but the public hasn't heard of us so it's really just our face to > ourselves and is about generating excitement and helping keep us all with the > program. > > When we go to launch our depot and storefront we will want to move to > something like Chicago's site so that the public, just hearing about us for > the first time and coming to check us out, doesn't get overwhelmed with > definition's of open source and aptgetanarchy feeds, etc. ;-). > > ~s > > On Tuesday 14 November 2006 8:41 am, Kristen Miedema wrote: > > for someone who is not terrible familiar with free geek (yet... i have been > > doing a lot of reading) > > i found the chicago web site great! Easy to get around, full of > > information, yet to the point. > > > > kristen. > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From shawn at freegeek.org Wed Nov 15 12:52:59 2006 From: shawn at freegeek.org (shawn) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 12:52:59 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] FG PDX intros + registered IRC channel #freegeek irc.indymedia.org In-Reply-To: <20061115030941.GB7384@fgdefault> References: <3d895eaf0611140210h7f3f1d29y72385d21c8998752@mail.gmail.com> <20061115030941.GB7384@fgdefault> Message-ID: <200611151253.01673.shawn@freegeek.org> Hi! I just wanted to introduce my electronic self in person. I'm Shawn, and like Matteo wrote below, my official title is volunteer program coordinator, although I also do lots of outreach, hiring/grievance/staff review stuff, and generally try to listen and keep up with goings-on around this joint. I'm also inspired by what you guys are doing, and the comraderie, thoughtfulness, and rationally opinionated means by which you're doing it. Huzzah! shawn On Tuesday 14 November 2006 19:09, matteo wrote: > Hello, > My name is Matteo, I'm way down here at Free Geek in Portland. I'm a > long time volunteer here. Also joining your list is Shawn our > volunteer program coordinator. It's a awesome task your group has > decided to take on. We are very excited for you. > > We also have a IRC channel feal free to join at any time to ask > questions, or to lurk. > http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/IRC > > Matteo > > On Tue, Nov 14, 2006 at 02:10:45AM -0800, ifny said: From kristenmiedema at gmail.com Wed Nov 15 16:28:41 2006 From: kristenmiedema at gmail.com (Kristen Miedema) Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 16:28:41 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611150235t5d3523c6h40072cee813aa277@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> <3d895eaf0611150235t5d3523c6h40072cee813aa277@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: i took my very first look at the vancouver free geek web-site today. and i was asked to give some feed back on my experience, with a "set of new eyes" slant. i am most likely going to be like 95% of the people who view your site... (the other 5% being the people who are reading this e-mail now) fairly uneducated about free geek, looking to gain a bit of knowledge, and if i am impressed on the information i get, see how i can get involved. my first thought is that this is a web-site, like "s" said, for people who are already involved. people who have passwords and login names and all that jazz... people who already know lots about what is going on, Not a place where i could find out what was going on (unless i wanted to go to a meeting, which i don't because i don't anything yet) so i guess if this is supposed to be a place for communication for all already involved, it's great! but then maybe you shouldn't have any of it accessible to the public. because it is your face right now, and it reads more like a geek-blog then an free-geek organization. my response to "s" comment of "just hearing about us for the first time and coming to check us out, doesn't get overwhelmed with definition's of open source and aptgetanarchy feeds, etc. ;-)." i did... and i am. (i actually just had to google aptgetanarchy... linux... naturally :-) so guess the question is do you want "my-kind" around yet...? (my-kind = someone who has heard about it, and wanted to know a little more) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iamlachance at gmail.com Thu Nov 16 09:56:32 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:56:32 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] next meeting time & place? Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611160956t1b048d52h144c93fd44ca4e6f@mail.gmail.com> hi all, we need to set a time & place for the next meeting (monday nov 27). does 7 still work? the brickhouse (while it had good beer) was a little noisy. can someone suggest somewhere a bit quieter? !fny From ms419 at freezone.co.uk Thu Nov 16 16:06:47 2006 From: ms419 at freezone.co.uk (Jack Bates) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 16:06:47 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] next meeting time & place? In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611160956t1b048d52h144c93fd44ca4e6f@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611160956t1b048d52h144c93fd44ca4e6f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1163722007.3951.15.camel@tor.lat> Unfortunately I'm already commited on the last Monday of every month, 5-10PM : ( Jack On Thu, 2006-11-16 at 09:56 -0800, ifny wrote: > hi all, we need to set a time & place for the next meeting (monday nov 27). > > does 7 still work? > > the brickhouse (while it had good beer) was a little noisy. can > someone suggest somewhere a bit quieter? > > !fny > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 242 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From richard at freegeek.org Thu Nov 16 17:02:37 2006 From: richard at freegeek.org (That Man Behind the Curtain) Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 17:02:37 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: <200610261820.08544.humble@resist.ca> References: <8c0eafaa0610261615m7ac1865ai54f9d63f3279ac1@mail.gmail.com> <200610261820.08544.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <455D0A2D.90901@freegeek.org> agent humble wrote: > Could you briefly introduce yourself and let us know your experience, your > interest in this project, and how much time you see being able commit over > the next year? Hi, this is Richard in FG Portland. I just downloaded the archives and look forward to plowing through them. I'm the original author of our first database, the guy who started the build program, one of the orginal volunteers, helped get the council started, got us into the collective thing, helped rewrite the bylaws, work on prebuild and bookkeeping a lot these days. -- Some people without brains do an awful lot of talking! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Richard Seymour, That Man Behind the Curtain From betterthanbutter at gmail.com Fri Nov 17 19:42:14 2006 From: betterthanbutter at gmail.com (LBA Veldstra) Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 19:42:14 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Observation of P-FG Message-ID: This past remembrance day weekend i had the opportunity to vist the grand city of portland. I have been there a few times in the past. This particular experience is earmarked for the awesome category. I went and volunteered at FG with the DR. In a simple statement it is one of the best recycling facilities i have been to. I have had some experience with these environs. I have worked at Metro Recycling in Victoria (very unpleasant), an Auto wreckers in Oakville onscario (an environmental nightmare), and i have hung out extensively at the "free-store" on hornby island (probably the second coolest, with a history of nightmare.) P-FG is spectacular. It combines all of the goodness of recycling with the benefit of a smallish sub-culture. It chaos, maddness at times. but there is a acknowledged order. A structure weaving it all together. i spent a very small amount of time there. from 11:30 to 7. it wasn't enough really. Everything passed by so quickly. An awful lot of hardware showed up in those 8 hours of openess. I was amazed. apparently it was a typical saturday. everything came in from the curb by trolley. where it was assessed for values. then it all had to be given destinations. and moved through-out the building. The flow of equipment through testing was ideal. You can tell that this is where the focus is, get these computers out to people who need them. I feel that that end of P-FG is tweaked quite well. what would've been awesome is a little door that led to processing. scratch that it would have to be a big door. Processing itself could be set up a little differently. The cases definitely need to be crushed to obtain better dollar value. certain things could be set up to glean more refined recyclable materials. Hard-drives are but the I was thinking of a pneumatic/hydraulic press run off of compressed air/oil. compressed air itself is a useful thing itself to have around a dismantling area. clean hydraulic oil is mostly harmless. It doesn't kill fish at certain dilutions apparently, i don't know what it does to baby seals or birds. either root we choose i feel that, while we aren't crushing cases, we could use either to run all sorts of neat gizmos. The best part about the day i spent at P-FG. was the meeting of so many people. So many people make up the whole. Young. Old. Disabled. Enabled Everyone is equal. Everyone is a specialist. Everyone is needed. its beautiful really. hard to find at times. Other times there is no other way. while everyone gleans a different experience. each experience is common. Its Freedom for the geeks. geek is really to ambiguous a term. and who wants to argue freedom? -- ~aaron~ "leave the credit for the thieves, i'll take myself and live in the trees." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From iamturnip at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 20:21:47 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 20:21:47 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] the website Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611192021x3332a463lf42db33b2a1fcf2c@mail.gmail.com> Greetings, I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe we should make something more direct. At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think it would be worth it. This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we would have to do this soon. -- David From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sun Nov 19 21:01:06 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:01:06 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Free talk on poverty and an environmentally sustainable economy Message-ID: <45613692.6060903@seanhill.ca> There's a free talk being given about environmentally sustainable business and how the poor fit in and can benefit going on tomorrow, Monday Nov. 20. It's being put on by Vancity as part of their 60th anniversary activities (Disclaimer: I work for Vancity). Location is St. Andrew's-Wesley Church on Burrard at Nelson starting at 7:30. I can't make it but it looks as though it may be relevant to what we're up to. https://www.vancity.com/MyMoney/AboutUs/WhoWeAre/60thAnniversary/SpeakerSeries/ sean :o) From iamturnip at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 21:10:02 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 21:10:02 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] free geek chicago In-Reply-To: References: <3d895eaf0611140150g258ecec9qdfa61422a0abe0f8@mail.gmail.com> <200611141053.17827.humble@resist.ca> <3d895eaf0611150235t5d3523c6h40072cee813aa277@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611192110j6716768dvc16aa507c4e911fd@mail.gmail.com> Kristen and all, > so guess the question is do you want "my-kind" around yet...? > (my-kind = someone who has heard about it, and wanted to know a little more) You make some strong points again. Your last question is very good, and is part of a larger issue. I feel the need to express that there is no "my-kind". We are in this all together, regardless of skill level or knowledge of computers. We are building more than a non-profit or a recycling centre, we are attempting to build a community. One of the main goals of Free Geek is to bridge the digital divide. To achieve this we need to realise that this is not done by a few "skilled" individuals giving their knowledge to the great masses, but a sharing of information, and skills. A bridge is not built from one side. To answer your question, yes we want you around(heck, you are already contributing!), and anyone around, not "my-kind", because that is an illusion setup by those who seek to separate us. -- David From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 22:38:15 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:38:15 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611182014r302efe76k184216483d7d98b4@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611182014r302efe76k184216483d7d98b4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the clutter & the site's navigabliity. i think we should devise a simple informational front page, featuring an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a calendar. i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: -contact (phone email irc) -family freegeeks -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) -fg-v wiki -join the mailing list -mailing list archives -next meeting -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few ways to display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news feeds in a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so any joe average could visit us just by clicking. i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a blog on a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other volunteers). we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html could either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out later, while having something more functional right away. how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, can we use your place? ~ifny On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: > Hello all, > > I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of > thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. > some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think > the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our > purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become > a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe > we should make something more direct. > > At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission > of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission > in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching > possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be > clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we > do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article > to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we > want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. > > Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an > accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I > don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla > browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a > simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by > everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). > > Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal > be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will > aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take > some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think > it would be worth it. > > This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your > thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we > would have to do this soon. > > -- > David > From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 22:46:47 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 22:46:47 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611182014r302efe76k184216483d7d98b4@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611192246l600dfb24p5109e6cbb1af3036@mail.gmail.com> sorry, one of the links to the newsfeeds wrapped weird. it's http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the > clutter & the site's navigabliity. > > i think we should devise a simple informational front page, featuring > an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a > calendar. > > i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: > > -contact (phone email irc) > -family freegeeks > -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) > -fg-v wiki > -join the mailing list > -mailing list archives > -next meeting > > -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few ways to > display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news feeds in > a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an > option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news > and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved > > can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so any > joe average could visit us just by clicking. > > i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a blog on > a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who > are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other > volunteers). > > we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html could > either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out > later, while having something more functional right away. > > how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the > site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, can > we use your place? > > ~ifny > > > > On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: > > Hello all, > > > > I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of > > thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. > > some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think > > the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our > > purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become > > a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe > > we should make something more direct. > > > > At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission > > of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission > > in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching > > possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be > > clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we > > do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article > > to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we > > want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. > > > > Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an > > accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I > > don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla > > browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a > > simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by > > everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). > > > > Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal > > be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will > > aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take > > some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think > > it would be worth it. > > > > This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your > > thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we > > would have to do this soon. > > > > -- > > David > > > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Sun Nov 19 23:26:10 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:26:10 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611182014r302efe76k184216483d7d98b4@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45615892.9030700@seanhill.ca> Sorry ifny, i'm a bit confused... do you mean a website meeting on the 26th in Vancouver? So that would be the night before the group meeting. sean :o) ifny wrote: > i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the > clutter & the site's navigabliity. > > i think we should devise a simple informational front page, featuring > an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a > calendar. > > i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: > > -contact (phone email irc) > -family freegeeks > -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) > -fg-v wiki > -join the mailing list > -mailing list archives > -next meeting > > -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few ways to > display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news feeds in > a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an > option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news > and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved > > can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so any > joe average could visit us just by clicking. > > i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a blog on > a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who > are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other > volunteers). > > we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html could > either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out > later, while having something more functional right away. > > how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the > site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, can > we use your place? > > ~ifny > > > > On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of >> thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. >> some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think >> the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our >> purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become >> a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe >> we should make something more direct. >> >> At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission >> of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission >> in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching >> possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be >> clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we >> do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article >> to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we >> want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. >> >> Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an >> accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I >> don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla >> browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a >> simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by >> everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). >> >> Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal >> be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will >> aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take >> some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think >> it would be worth it. >> >> This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your >> thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we >> would have to do this soon. >> >> -- >> David >> > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Sun Nov 19 23:32:49 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:32:49 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611192246l600dfb24p5109e6cbb1af3036@mail.gmail.com> References: <8c0eafaa0611182014r302efe76k184216483d7d98b4@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611192238jdea2bbel9e5b66743c88c7c2@mail.gmail.com> <3d895eaf0611192246l600dfb24p5109e6cbb1af3036@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611192332y45de279cvb99c5503ebe6a381@mail.gmail.com> sorry sean, yeah, a meeting the day before the main one. david says his place is fine. so we're on. the address is 434 w.12th ave. parking is available in the alley between 12th & 13th. there's no buzzer but the door will be open from 12 to 12:30. people who are going to come later should either rsvp or call david on the day so we can let you in. his number is 604-690-7372. ~ifny On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > sorry, one of the links to the newsfeeds wrapped weird. it's > http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > > > > On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > > i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the > > clutter & the site's navigabliity. > > > > i think we should devise a simple informational front page, featuring > > an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a > > calendar. > > > > i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: > > > > -contact (phone email irc) > > -family freegeeks > > -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) > > -fg-v wiki > > -join the mailing list > > -mailing list archives > > -next meeting > > > > -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few ways to > > display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news feeds in > > a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an > > option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news > > and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > > -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved > > > > can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so any > > joe average could visit us just by clicking. > > > > i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a blog on > > a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who > > are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other > > volunteers). > > > > we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html could > > either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out > > later, while having something more functional right away. > > > > how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the > > site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, can > > we use your place? > > > > ~ifny > > > > > > > > On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > > > I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of > > > thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. > > > some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think > > > the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our > > > purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become > > > a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe > > > we should make something more direct. > > > > > > At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission > > > of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission > > > in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching > > > possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be > > > clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we > > > do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article > > > to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we > > > want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. > > > > > > Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an > > > accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I > > > don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla > > > browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a > > > simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by > > > everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). > > > > > > Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal > > > be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will > > > aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take > > > some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think > > > it would be worth it. > > > > > > This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your > > > thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we > > > would have to do this soon. > > > > > > -- > > > David > > > > > > From sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca Mon Nov 20 14:45:52 2006 From: sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca (Sean Brookes) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 14:45:52 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros Message-ID: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> Hello, FreeGeek Vancouver is a great idea. Unfortunately, I had to find out about it through the Portland break-in. If any good does come out of it at least more people are now aware of the organization. My name is Sean Brookes. I have a degree in Business from SFU and have been a professional web programmer for about 9 years (ASP/ColdFusion/ASP.Net C#). A big chunk of that time working on fairly big LMS platforms especially with content management specifications. I have been working independently since 2003 and for various reasons I am currently in the process of migrating over to Linux and OSS development. My first project is a video editing system on a friends old box. Recently I completed a 10 month video production course and can't wait to use it to produce video for the web. From what I understand there are excellent video editing options available on Linux and I am excited about the challenge. It has always been such a shame to see truckloads good computer hardware being thrown away when a perfectly good operating system was available. Although I don't have much of a background in Linux, it is definitely where I am going so hopefully I can lend a hand somewhere. See you on Monday. Sean From iamturnip at gmail.com Mon Nov 20 16:24:56 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 16:24:56 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> Hello Sean! Great to see you on here. > can't wait to use it to produce video for the web. From what I > understand there are excellent video editing options available on Linux > and I am excited about the challenge. I was at a Python Convention in Burnaby in the summer and a the end of the weekend someone showed a short animated movie done in OSS which was amazing. Also there was a speaker who told us about his work with digitally remastering old films. I was trying to dig up some info for you, but having some difficulties. Perhaps when I return from Portland, I will find the original paper versions from the convention. (Do you remember Sim?) -- David 604-690-7372 From iamlachance at gmail.com Mon Nov 20 17:16:07 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:16:07 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] next meeting - mon nov 27, 7:00pm - spartacus books Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611201716v2717079ep5bfcbdf0c443a52c@mail.gmail.com> here's yer reminder. we can put together an agenda at the beginning of the meeting. a wireless connection will be available. would someone kindly volunteer to take minutes? this is posted on our website & on the momentum calendar http://momentumplanet.ca/?q=event/2006/11/27/day FREE GEEK VANCOUVER GENERAL MEETING MONDAY NOVEMBER 27 - 7:00pm Spartacus Books, 2nd floor 319 W. Hastings All welcome! Bring your bike upstairs. Join us as we continue developing a community non-profit dedicated to computer recycling, education, empowerment and free/open source philosophies. Open to the curious, the beginner & the programmer. Biker friendly! Come getcher geek on! For more info, contact David Repa at iamturnip at gmail.com or 604-690-7372. google map at http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=319+West+Hastings,+vancouver+bc+canada&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=49.283372,-123.110089&spn=0.015005,0.040598&om=1&iwloc=addr more info on spartacus http://www.spartacusbooks.org/ ~ifny From betterthanbutter at gmail.com Mon Nov 20 21:13:37 2006 From: betterthanbutter at gmail.com (LBA Veldstra) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 21:13:37 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: this may not be the best way to approch this perhaps i need to do some more research myself. i discovered something last winter that i have been itching to try since. Its called LiVES. opensource of course. It is apparently a video editing program. I know nothing of video editing myself, i am just interested. Curious to hear of a person using the program. Have you tried it/ heard of it? -- ~aaron~ "leave the credit for the thieves, i'll take myself and live in the trees." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tlowe at shaw.ca Mon Nov 20 22:13:22 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 22:13:22 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Word Gets Around... Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Hi, Somebody asked me today if FreeGeek is looking for contributions of old computers. I had to answer, "Not yet, no space for them right now." There is a REAL need out there. Terry From jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Mon Nov 20 23:03:59 2006 From: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca (Jennifer Campagnolo) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:03:59 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Word Gets Around... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: If someone has a donation, surely we can tell them that we plan to be operational in the new year and ask that they keep the equipment until then! On 20-Nov-06, at 10:13 PM, Terry Lowe wrote: > Hi, > > Somebody asked me today if FreeGeek is looking for contributions > of old computers. I had to answer, "Not yet, no space for them > right now." > > There is a REAL need out there. > > Terry > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd > millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamturnip at gmail.com Mon Nov 20 23:24:54 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 23:24:54 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Word Gets Around... In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611202324q786647a7ycc1226f1a97aafc1@mail.gmail.com> Terry, > > Somebody asked me today if FreeGeek is looking for contributions > of old computers. I had to answer, "Not yet, no space for them right now." > Please, tell them "YES, we are taking donations". I have space, and have been taking donations. If anyone has a donation please tell them to email me or phone me. I will do pick ups too, as long as it is with in a certian range. -- David 604-690-7372 From tlowe at shaw.ca Tue Nov 21 01:37:45 2006 From: tlowe at shaw.ca (Terry Lowe) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 01:37:45 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Word Gets Around... In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611202324q786647a7ycc1226f1a97aafc1@mail.gmail.co m> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> <5.0.2.1.0.20061120220938.01ea1460@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20061121013628.01e9ebd8@shawmail.vc.shawcable.net> Thanks, David. I forwarded that to the person in question. Terry At 11:24 PM 11 20 2006, you wrote: >Terry, > >> >>Somebody asked me today if FreeGeek is looking for contributions >>of old computers. I had to answer, "Not yet, no space for them right now." > >Please, tell them "YES, we are taking donations". I have space, and >have been taking donations. If anyone has a donation please tell them >to email me or phone me. I will do pick ups too, as long as it is >with in a certian range. > >-- >David >604-690-7372 >_______________________________________________ >http://freegeekvancouver.org >'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Tue Nov 21 12:05:50 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:05:50 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website - sunday's meeting cancelled Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611211205hce75604t3d6762c379fab7ae@mail.gmail.com> sorry folks, i remembered i've got a movie premiere this sunday, so i'd like to cancel the website meeting. my bad. why don't we just kick it around at the meeting on monday night? if you find yourself free in the afternoon, how about joining me for a local documentary about vancouver bikers? it's playing at the rio theatre (1660 e. commercial @ broadway), 2:00pm, $8, one-time showing. see http://youneverbikealone.com ~ifny On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > sorry sean, yeah, a meeting the day before the main one. > > david says his place is fine. so we're on. the address is 434 w.12th > ave. parking is available in the alley between 12th & 13th. there's no > buzzer but the door will be open from 12 to 12:30. people who are > going to come later should either rsvp or call david on the day so we > can let you in. his number is 604-690-7372. > > ~ifny > > > > On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > > sorry, one of the links to the newsfeeds wrapped weird. it's > > http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > > > > > > > > On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: > > > i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the > > > clutter & the site's navigabliity. > > > > > > i think we should devise a simple informational front page, featuring > > > an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a > > > calendar. > > > > > > i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: > > > > > > -contact (phone email irc) > > > -family freegeeks > > > -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) > > > -fg-v wiki > > > -join the mailing list > > > -mailing list archives > > > -next meeting > > > > > > -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few ways to > > > display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news feeds in > > > a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an > > > option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news > > > and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds > > > -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved > > > > > > can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so any > > > joe average could visit us just by clicking. > > > > > > i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a blog on > > > a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who > > > are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other > > > volunteers). > > > > > > we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html could > > > either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out > > > later, while having something more functional right away. > > > > > > how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the > > > site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, can > > > we use your place? > > > > > > ~ifny > > > > > > > > > > > > On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: > > > > Hello all, > > > > > > > > I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of > > > > thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much information. > > > > some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I think > > > > the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our > > > > purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to become > > > > a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, maybe > > > > we should make something more direct. > > > > > > > > At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our mission > > > > of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our message/mission > > > > in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when approaching > > > > possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be > > > > clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time what we > > > > do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum article > > > > to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three messages we > > > > want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. > > > > > > > > Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an > > > > accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all browsers? I > > > > don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my Mozilla > > > > browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a > > > > simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by > > > > everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). > > > > > > > > Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the drupal > > > > be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something simple will > > > > aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would take > > > > some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but I think > > > > it would be worth it. > > > > > > > > This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your > > > > thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a bit, we > > > > would have to do this soon. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > David > > > > > > > > > > From freegeek at seanhill.ca Tue Nov 21 18:00:06 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 18:00:06 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Re: Our website - sunday's meeting cancelled In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611211205hce75604t3d6762c379fab7ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <3d895eaf0611211205hce75604t3d6762c379fab7ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4563AF26.9040404@seanhill.ca> Not a problem here on merging the meetings, but unfortunately I have class on Monday night and won't be at the meeting til ~8:30-9:00 sean :o) ifny wrote: > sorry folks, i remembered i've got a movie premiere this sunday, so > i'd like to cancel the website meeting. my bad. why don't we just kick > it around at the meeting on monday night? > > if you find yourself free in the afternoon, how about joining me for a > local documentary about vancouver bikers? it's playing at the rio > theatre (1660 e. commercial @ broadway), 2:00pm, $8, one-time showing. > > see http://youneverbikealone.com > > ~ifny > > > On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: >> sorry sean, yeah, a meeting the day before the main one. >> >> david says his place is fine. so we're on. the address is 434 w.12th >> ave. parking is available in the alley between 12th & 13th. there's no >> buzzer but the door will be open from 12 to 12:30. people who are >> going to come later should either rsvp or call david on the day so we >> can let you in. his number is 604-690-7372. >> >> ~ifny >> >> >> >> On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: >> > sorry, one of the links to the newsfeeds wrapped weird. it's >> > http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds >> > >> > >> > >> > On 11/19/06, ifny wrote: >> > > i agree with many of your points david. i'm also concerned about the >> > > clutter & the site's navigabliity. >> > > >> > > i think we should devise a simple informational front page, >> featuring >> > > an intro to what we are & what we plan to do, contact info, & a >> > > calendar. >> > > >> > > i'd like to see a *very* select list of links on that front page: >> > > >> > > -contact (phone email irc) >> > > -family freegeeks >> > > -fg-v news (actually a blog format, similar to what we've got now) >> > > -fg-v wiki >> > > -join the mailing list >> > > -mailing list archives >> > > -next meeting >> > > >> > > -maybe a link to a page of related newsfeeds (there are a few >> ways to >> > > display these. gowlin found a nice module that arranges news >> feeds in >> > > a collated view, & it also can display them by source. that's an >> > > option. see these views at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=news >> > > and by source at http://arkady.indymedia.org/velo/?q=newsfeeds >> > > -maybe a link to an info page in how to get involved >> > > >> > > can we set up our own java portal for irc? that would be nice, so >> any >> > > joe average could visit us just by clicking. >> > > >> > > i do like the content we have now, & would like to see it as a >> blog on >> > > a separate page linked from the main page. it's good for people who >> > > are thinking of getting involved (tech-heads, teachers, other >> > > volunteers). >> > > >> > > we could just strip down the drupal to do these things. the html >> could >> > > either come later or no longer be necessitated. we can figure it out >> > > later, while having something more functional right away. >> > > >> > > how about meeting in person to get down to the dirty & workshop the >> > > site? i propose sunday the 26th. does that work for y'all? david, >> can >> > > we use your place? >> > > >> > > ~ifny >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On 11/18/06, David Repa wrote: >> > > > Hello all, >> > > > >> > > > I have been looking at the website today, and I have a couple of >> > > > thoughts. I really think it is too busy, with too much >> information. >> > > > some not even relevant to what we are trying to accomplish. I >> think >> > > > the idea of the drupal is great, and sorely needed for some of our >> > > > purposes. However, seeing as freegeekvancouver.org is going to >> become >> > > > a focal point for anyone in the community who wants to know us, >> maybe >> > > > we should make something more direct. >> > > > >> > > > At this point, in my mind, our web presence should benefit our >> mission >> > > > of securing funding. I think a page that conveys our >> message/mission >> > > > in a clean and direct manner would serve us better when >> approaching >> > > > possible financial support, and hardware donations. It should be >> > > > clear to anyone looking at our opening page for the first time >> what we >> > > > do/plan to do. Currently one would have to read the Momentum >> article >> > > > to get a better idea. Perhaps deciding on two or three >> messages we >> > > > want to convey for a first impression would be more helpful. >> > > > >> > > > Not only does my concern stem from a simplicity standpoint but an >> > > > accessibility standpoint. Is the drupal viewable by all >> browsers? I >> > > > don't know, maybe someone could let me know. I know that my >> Mozilla >> > > > browser is unhappy with certain aspects of it. I do know that a >> > > > simple html page can be done in a manner that is viewable by >> > > > everything, even lynx(a great ad free experience). >> > > > >> > > > Would a simple "made from scratch" html page that links to the >> drupal >> > > > be more ideal. Perhaps even the appearance of something >> simple will >> > > > aid us better in securing monies? I know that this idea would >> take >> > > > some extra time to code(Aaron said he would give it a go), but >> I think >> > > > it would be worth it. >> > > > >> > > > This is of course is my opinion, and I would like to know your >> > > > thoughts on this. Of course if we decided to change things a >> bit, we >> > > > would have to do this soon. >> > > > >> > > > -- >> > > > David >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca Wed Nov 22 00:34:25 2006 From: sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca (Sean Brookes) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:34:25 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45640B91.4070000@contentsolutions.ca> I hadn't heard of it until you brought it to my attention. I spend this evening looking at the different options and it looks like LiVES, Cinerella, and Jahshaka are all pretty good video editing options. I just downloaded the Ubuntu Distro tonight but don't think I will get a chance to install it until some time next week as I am heading to Tofino for few days. Thanks for the heads up. LBA Veldstra wrote: > this may not be the best way to approch this perhaps i need to do some > more > research myself. i discovered something last winter that i have been > itching to try since. Its called LiVES. opensource of course. It is > apparently a video editing program. I know nothing of video editing > myself, > i am just interested. Curious to hear of a person using the program. > Have > you tried it/ heard of it? > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >http://freegeekvancouver.org >'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' >https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > From sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca Wed Nov 22 00:35:54 2006 From: sean.brookes at contentsolutions.ca (Sean Brookes) Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 00:35:54 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Welcome - intros In-Reply-To: <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> Thanks for the welcome. Have a good trip to Portland. David Repa wrote: > Hello Sean! > > Great to see you on here. > >> can't wait to use it to produce video for the web. From what I >> understand there are excellent video editing options available on Linux >> and I am excited about the challenge. > > > I was at a Python Convention in Burnaby in the summer and a the end of > the weekend someone showed a short animated movie done in OSS which > was amazing. Also there was a speaker who told us about his work with > digitally remastering old films. > > I was trying to dig up some info for you, but having some > difficulties. Perhaps when I return from Portland, I will find the > original paper versions from the convention. (Do you remember Sim?) > From humble at resist.ca Fri Nov 24 19:07:12 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Fri, 24 Nov 2006 19:07:12 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Data potluck In-Reply-To: <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> Message-ID: <200611241907.13066.humble@resist.ca> Hi folks, I know it's late notice but y'all are invited to a data potluck tomorrow afternoon at my place. Bring your laptops, harddrives, ipods, etc. and share your good stuff and fill up with more great 1s and 0s. Any freegeekers get the added bonus of going through my gear room for any parts they might need - up for grabs: 11 pcs, 3 monitors, stacks of modems, etc! E-mail me for my address or get it from me tonight if you're at the ANZA and see me! cheers, Scott From sean at seanhill.ca Sat Nov 25 00:45:55 2006 From: sean at seanhill.ca (sean hill) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 00:45:55 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Data potluck In-Reply-To: <200611241907.13066.humble@resist.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> <200611241907.13066.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <456802C3.8090001@seanhill.ca> hey scott, i'm interested in showing up if i can get enough of my homework done. what time and where? sean :o) agent humble wrote: > Hi folks, > > I know it's late notice but y'all are invited to a data potluck tomorrow > afternoon at my place. Bring your laptops, harddrives, ipods, etc. and share > your good stuff and fill up with more great 1s and 0s. > > Any freegeekers get the added bonus of going through my gear room for any > parts they might need - up for grabs: 11 pcs, 3 monitors, stacks of modems, > etc! > > E-mail me for my address or get it from me tonight if you're at the ANZA and > see me! > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From bowserj at uselessdegree.net Sat Nov 25 08:50:49 2006 From: bowserj at uselessdegree.net (Joe Bowser) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 08:50:49 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Data potluck In-Reply-To: <456802C3.8090001@seanhill.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> <200611241907.13066.humble@resist.ca> <456802C3.8090001@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> I'd like to know the when as well. :) Thanks On Sat, 2006-25-11 at 00:45 -0800, sean hill wrote: > hey scott, > > i'm interested in showing up if i can get enough of my homework done. > what time and where? > > sean :o) > > > agent humble wrote: > > Hi folks, > > > > I know it's late notice but y'all are invited to a data potluck tomorrow > > afternoon at my place. Bring your laptops, harddrives, ipods, etc. and share > > your good stuff and fill up with more great 1s and 0s. > > > > Any freegeekers get the added bonus of going through my gear room for any > > parts they might need - up for grabs: 11 pcs, 3 monitors, stacks of modems, > > etc! > > > > E-mail me for my address or get it from me tonight if you're at the ANZA and > > see me! > > > > cheers, > > > > Scott > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeekvancouver.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamlachance at gmail.com Sat Nov 25 14:47:14 2006 From: iamlachance at gmail.com (ifny) Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:47:14 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Data potluck In-Reply-To: <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <8c0eafaa0611201624x6a8349fq3e922f72e14cf3a0@mail.gmail.com> <45640BEA.2040105@contentsolutions.ca> <200611241907.13066.humble@resist.ca> <456802C3.8090001@seanhill.ca> <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> after 2pm, so that means now is cool! :D ~ifny On 11/25/06, Joe Bowser wrote: > I'd like to know the when as well. :) > > Thanks > > On Sat, 2006-25-11 at 00:45 -0800, sean hill wrote: > > hey scott, > > > > i'm interested in showing up if i can get enough of my homework done. > > what time and where? > > > > sean :o) > > > > > > agent humble wrote: > > > Hi folks, > > > > > > I know it's late notice but y'all are invited to a data potluck tomorrow > > > afternoon at my place. Bring your laptops, harddrives, ipods, etc. and share > > > your good stuff and fill up with more great 1s and 0s. > > > > > > Any freegeekers get the added bonus of going through my gear room for any > > > parts they might need - up for grabs: 11 pcs, 3 monitors, stacks of modems, > > > etc! > > > > > > E-mail me for my address or get it from me tonight if you're at the ANZA and > > > see me! > > > > > > cheers, > > > > > > Scott > > > _______________________________________________ > > > http://freegeekvancouver.org > > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > http://freegeekvancouver.org > > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > From humble at resist.ca Mon Nov 27 07:58:56 2006 From: humble at resist.ca (agent humble) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 07:58:56 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] reminder: meeting tonight 7 pm - Spartacus Books In-Reply-To: <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> Hi Freegeekers, This is your "official" reminder of tonight's meeting at Spartacus Books, beginning at 7:00pm. The address is 2nd floor 319 W. Hastings. All welcome! Wireless available. Bring your bike upstairs... here's a map: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=319+West+Hastings, +vancouver+bc+canada&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=49.283372,-123.110089&spn=0.015005,0.040598&om=1&iwloc=addr cheers, Scott From jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Mon Nov 27 14:32:46 2006 From: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca (Jennifer Campagnolo) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:32:46 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] reminder: meeting tonight 7 pm - Spartacus Books In-Reply-To: <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <4A5D39E0-4C1A-401D-AEB0-AAEE3B2DD930@shaw.ca> Jennifer Campagnolo Mail: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Blog: www.anothergreenworld.org Work: www.thehigherground.ca Cell: 778-837-4343 Skype: jenvirtual Motto: AWARENESS, CAPACITY, CHANGE On 27-Nov-06, at 7:58 AM, agent humble wrote: > Hi Freegeekers, > > This is your "official" reminder of tonight's meeting at Spartacus > Books, > beginning at 7:00pm. The address is 2nd floor 319 W. Hastings. > All welcome! Wireless available. Bring your bike upstairs... here's > a map: > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=319+West+Hastings, > +vancouver+bc > +canada&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=49.283372,-123.110089&spn=0.015005,0.040598&om > =1&iwloc=addr > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd > millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From jcampagnolo at shaw.ca Mon Nov 27 14:37:53 2006 From: jcampagnolo at shaw.ca (Jennifer Campagnolo) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 14:37:53 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] reminder: meeting tonight 7 pm - Spartacus Books In-Reply-To: <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> Message-ID: <66555E3F-D15A-421F-84BF-1B9EA68DAFC5@shaw.ca> Do we have an agenda for tonight's meeting? What is the focus? Thanks, J On 27-Nov-06, at 7:58 AM, agent humble wrote: > Hi Freegeekers, > > This is your "official" reminder of tonight's meeting at Spartacus > Books, > beginning at 7:00pm. The address is 2nd floor 319 W. Hastings. > All welcome! Wireless available. Bring your bike upstairs... here's > a map: > http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=319+West+Hastings, > +vancouver+bc > +canada&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=49.283372,-123.110089&spn=0.015005,0.040598&om > =1&iwloc=addr > > cheers, > > Scott > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd > millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van From iamturnip at gmail.com Mon Nov 27 15:14:36 2006 From: iamturnip at gmail.com (David Repa) Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:14:36 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] reminder: meeting tonight 7 pm - Spartacus Books In-Reply-To: <66555E3F-D15A-421F-84BF-1B9EA68DAFC5@shaw.ca> References: <45623020.4060708@contentsolutions.ca> <1164473449.5170.0.camel@localhost> <3d895eaf0611251447m16599e76n590f976e13debe5a@mail.gmail.com> <200611270758.56093.humble@resist.ca> <66555E3F-D15A-421F-84BF-1B9EA68DAFC5@shaw.ca> Message-ID: <8c0eafaa0611271514g24e51c49r544ec97422d598e2@mail.gmail.com> Jennifer, Tonight's agenda is going to be set at the meeting as to keep it flexible, depending on who shows up. Please feel free to contribute agenda items. -- David 604-690-7372 From freegeek at seanhill.ca Tue Nov 28 13:06:27 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:06:27 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] 2006-11-27 general meeting minutes Message-ID: <456CA4D3.8080405@seanhill.ca> hey folks, here are the minutes i took at the meeting last night. my apologies if any names are misspelled. please review and email me with any corrections or things i missed. i've also attached a pdf for those that might prefer a formatted version. it obviously increases the size of the download so please feel free to comment on this. ***oops! looks like this put me over the size limit!*** ***if anyone wants a pdf of other format, please email me*** sean :o) ***************************************************************************** Free Geek Vancouver ? General Meeting - Mon, November 27, 2006 ***************************************************************************** Facilitator: David Repa Regulator: Jennifer Scribe: Sean Hill Audio: Ifny ====================== Glossary ====================== FG ? Free Geek mothership ? Free Geek Portland PDX ? Free Geek Portland FGV ? Free Geek Vancouver distro ? distribution ? as in ?what Linux distro are you using?? wiki ? a user-editable website ====================== Agenda ====================== - agenda items - introductions - mothership ? debriefing by Ifny & David, Q&A - incorporation - workgroups (webpage/listserve, publicity/fund raising/outreach, software/database, spaces) - website - outreach/donations - communications - action items/next meeting date ====================== introductions ====================== - present ? (online monikers in parentheses) - Sim, Aaron, Steven, Terry, Sean Moffat, Matt, Sean Brookes, Ifny, Scott (agent humble), Jennifer (jen virtual), Joe, Sean Hill (evershade), David Repa (iamturnip), Rowan ====================== mothership ====================== ---------------------- David ---------------------- - David's second time to Free Geek Portland. Volunteered to get more info and experience of operations - ?potent community building initiative? - PDX is very excited about FGV ? believe we have the right spirit - Spent a lot of time with and talking to volunteers. Felt they were thankful FG exists. ?sense of community, more than just recycling? - 2 phases to franchising: 1.questionnaire/application ? lets PDX get a sense of who we are. (location, address, policy comprehension) 2.more involved and detailed form ? goes through all aspects (who's signing for accounts, square footage, consensus model) ? allows PDX to decide who they will give franchise status to - Volunteering down at PDX will give a good sense of how it works ---------------------- Ifny ---------------------- - Struck by how sustaining it is for people. There are people who go every day and volunteer - Food is constantly brought in by 'binning' and through donations - Spent a lot of time with hardware. Went through a small class to learn ?pre-build? - Spent time in receiving for humans and for hardware - Attended HR meeting ? how people get along (allegiances, etc) - email domain offered to FGV - A lot of anticipation over FGV. People at PDX say FGV may be able to avoid some of the pitfalls of other FGs - Gift of a signed drive with FG build of Ubuntu Linux ---------------------- q&a ---------------------- q. did you ask about business plan? a. on the wiki. David can find it and make it available q. why does PDX feel we may avoid pitfalls? a. we are very communicative with each other (listserve, irc). We seem to be more self-sufficient and logical eg. Olympia got stuck on idealogical, not practical and ended up too divided eg. Olympia started to rely on PDX for discipline. eg Pennsylvania ended up more for-profit. q. how many PDX folks will come to opening? a. 2 at least... webcast? q. how many there as paid and inner sanctum? a. ~15 paid staff. ~30 volunteers at any given time. ~5 core volunteers q. what is PDX's competitive landscape? other organisations? a. no direct non-profit. Some for-profit has been aggressive over contracts. Contracts poached from public archives. eg. a school that wants 100 computers. Since PDX keeps business openly available online, someone may undercut what PDX is offering q. service contracts? a. no, but tech support is offered as long as the original distro is left on hardware. If you receive a computer through volunteering, you will get pretty much unlimited tech support. Buying one from the store gets one free support visit, then ~$10 q. annual budget? a. not sure. Probably on wiki q. how many machines? throughput? a. sales are down. No exact numbers. many boxes ready to go. Facility is 1500sq ft, moving to 3000. Donations generally come from residential, non-stop on a Saturday. More businesses seemed to show up in week q. $10 a monitor a. yes. A donation form shows mandatory and suggested donation fees for drop-offs q. are volunteers confident and able to explain policies? a. staff member is usually present in each area to make sure things run smooth and follow policy q. how important is it for FGV to be non-profit? a. requirement for franchising, along with consensus-based governing (consensus to be defined) ---------------------- follow-up ---------------------- - PDX was recently robbed. Bad news, but good publicity - Getting local government on board can be good publicity and a source of hardware. - $20K monthly (gross?) through the thrift store - Volunteers are from all stripes (cons, mom's, interested, bored, poor, wealthy) ====================== incorporation ====================== - We have secured Free Geek name locally ? Free Geek Community Technology Centre Society - Hoping to incorporate as non-profit this week ? we have 5 incorporee names required. Straightforward application. David planning to fast track application to allow us to start moving - We should define a basic set of bylaws to operate with. Not official, able to be amended at first AGM - Vancouver-specific page has been opened on PDX wiki. Can be used to start brainstorming our bylaws. Linked to from our page freegeekvancouver.org. Will help to expedite the final bylaw process - Wiki has play area that does not update true wiki ====================== workgroups ====================== - tools: - mailing lists - meetings - irc - Having to report to a larger forum gives incentive - Bylaws should be openly discussed to allow access to others outside the workgroup - PDX ? brings overarching, controversial issues to council. Must come to 3 meetings total before you can block an action (expiration of privilege?) - Spartacus ? uses loose consensus ? whoever shows up ---------------------- content (website/listserv) ---------------------- - currently using Drupal(drupal.org). MediaWiki(www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki), used by Wikipedia - will maintain creative change over Drupal - writing - defining our web presence - members: Ifny, Sean Brookes, Scott, David ---------------------- communication (publicity/fund raising/outreach/events) ---------------------- - publicity ? speaking with media, advertising for meetings - fund raising ? event planning, movie night, budget considerations - outreach ? regular Linux clinic (Linux Clinix) - getting the message right - government communication ? grants, cost benefit to city due to our ops - members: Steve, Jennifer, Scott, Ifny, Rowan ---------------------- locations ---------------------- - real estate. scouting locations - false creek~~~north of Broadway~~~west of Main~~~east of Cambie - GVRD ? zero waste challenge? - members: David ---------------------- software ---------------------- - good to use what PDX has and to ?not reinvent the wheel? - also need to review what is available and make sure it works - deciding on distro - members: Terry, Matt, Scott, Sean Hill, Joe, David, Sean Brookes ---------------------- recycling ---------------------- - logistics ? where are the computers gonna go? - how much can be processed locally? - waste/recycling education ? why are we doing this? - members: David, Aaron, Sean Moffat, Joe ---------------------- curriculum (education) ---------------------- - teaching volunteers - understanding community needs - different classes - members: Sean Hill, David, Jennifer, Joe, Scott, Ifny ---------------------- governance (consensus/AGM/bylaws) ---------------------- - charitable status? - research on requirements/regulations regarding submissions to government - members: David, Scott, Joe, Ifny, Sean Hill ---------------------- health/safety ---------------------- - how to operate safely ? toxins, mental health, first aid - members: David, Jennifer, Sim, Sean Moffat ---------------------- futures... ---------------------- - museum? ====================== website ====================== - pushed on to workgroup ====================== outreach/donations ====================== - hardware ? we have space ? contact David - ?yes we take it. yes we take it.? - Steve ? knows people collecting old hardware - $10 fee for monitors ====================== communications ====================== - please make use of all of the communications we have - using the tools we have spreads our resources further allows us to save time - irc - gateway through website - listserve - website ? freegeekvancouver.org ====================== action items ====================== - post agenda in advance - AGM ? 3rd week of January - opening ? June 2007 - general meeting ? Saturday January 6th, 13:00 ? location TBA - movie night ? December 12th ~18:00 open, 19:00 start - Scott will have listserves up within a couple of days - workgroups will post their meetings shortly ? minutes to listserve From kristenmiedema at gmail.com Tue Nov 28 14:26:54 2006 From: kristenmiedema at gmail.com (Kristen Miedema) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:26:54 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] 2006-11-27 general meeting minutes In-Reply-To: <456CA4D3.8080405@seanhill.ca> References: <456CA4D3.8080405@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: thanks for sending out the minutes, sounds like you guys covered a lot of ground! k. On 11/28/06, sean wrote: > > > hey folks, > > here are the minutes i took at the meeting last night. my apologies if > any names are misspelled. please review and email me with any > corrections or things i missed. > > i've also attached a pdf for those that might prefer a formatted > version. it obviously increases the size of the download so please feel > free to comment on this. > > ***oops! looks like this put me over the size limit!*** > ***if anyone wants a pdf of other format, please email me*** > > > sean :o) > > > ***************************************************************************** > Free Geek Vancouver ? General Meeting - Mon, November 27, 2006 > > ***************************************************************************** > > Facilitator: David Repa > Regulator: Jennifer > Scribe: Sean Hill > Audio: Ifny > > ====================== > Glossary > ====================== > FG ? Free Geek > mothership ? Free Geek Portland > PDX ? Free Geek Portland > FGV ? Free Geek Vancouver > distro ? distribution ? as in "what Linux distro are you using?" > wiki ? a user-editable website > > ====================== > Agenda > ====================== > - agenda items > - introductions > - mothership ? debriefing by Ifny & David, Q&A > - incorporation > - workgroups (webpage/listserve, publicity/fund raising/outreach, > software/database, spaces) > - website > - outreach/donations > - communications > - action items/next meeting date > > ====================== > introductions > ====================== > - present ? (online monikers in parentheses) > - Sim, Aaron, Steven, Terry, Sean Moffat, Matt, Sean Brookes, Ifny, > Scott (agent humble), Jennifer (jen virtual), Joe, Sean Hill > (evershade), David Repa (iamturnip), Rowan > > ====================== > mothership > ====================== > ---------------------- > David > ---------------------- > - David's second time to Free Geek Portland. Volunteered to get more > info and experience of operations > - "potent community building initiative" > - PDX is very excited about FGV ? believe we have the right spirit > - Spent a lot of time with and talking to volunteers. Felt they were > thankful FG exists. "sense of community, more than just recycling" > - 2 phases to franchising: > 1.questionnaire/application ? lets PDX get a sense of who we are. > (location, address, policy comprehension) > 2.more involved and detailed form ? goes through all aspects (who's > signing for accounts, square footage, consensus model) ? allows PDX to > decide who they will give franchise status to > - Volunteering down at PDX will give a good sense of how it works > > ---------------------- > Ifny > ---------------------- > - Struck by how sustaining it is for people. There are people who go > every day and volunteer > - Food is constantly brought in by 'binning' and through donations > - Spent a lot of time with hardware. Went through a small class to learn > "pre-build" > - Spent time in receiving for humans and for hardware > - Attended HR meeting ? how people get along (allegiances, etc) > - email domain offered to FGV > - A lot of anticipation over FGV. People at PDX say FGV may be able to > avoid some of the pitfalls of other FGs > - Gift of a signed drive with FG build of Ubuntu Linux > > ---------------------- > q&a > ---------------------- > q. did you ask about business plan? > a. on the wiki. David can find it and make it available > > q. why does PDX feel we may avoid pitfalls? > a. we are very communicative with each other (listserve, irc). We seem > to be more self-sufficient and logical > eg. Olympia got stuck on idealogical, not practical and ended up too > divided > eg. Olympia started to rely on PDX for discipline. > eg Pennsylvania ended up more for-profit. > > q. how many PDX folks will come to opening? > a. 2 at least... webcast? > > q. how many there as paid and inner sanctum? > a. ~15 paid staff. ~30 volunteers at any given time. ~5 core volunteers > > q. what is PDX's competitive landscape? other organisations? > a. no direct non-profit. Some for-profit has been aggressive over > contracts. Contracts poached from public archives. > eg. a school that wants 100 computers. Since PDX keeps business > openly available online, someone may undercut what PDX is offering > > q. service contracts? > a. no, but tech support is offered as long as the original distro is > left on hardware. If you receive a computer through volunteering, you > will get pretty much unlimited tech support. Buying one from the store > gets one free support visit, then ~$10 > > q. annual budget? > a. not sure. Probably on wiki > > q. how many machines? throughput? > a. sales are down. No exact numbers. many boxes ready to go. Facility is > 1500sq ft, moving to 3000. Donations generally come from residential, > non-stop on a Saturday. More businesses seemed to show up in week > > q. $10 a monitor > a. yes. A donation form shows mandatory and suggested donation fees for > drop-offs > > q. are volunteers confident and able to explain policies? > a. staff member is usually present in each area to make sure things run > smooth and follow policy > > q. how important is it for FGV to be non-profit? > a. requirement for franchising, along with consensus-based governing > (consensus to be defined) > > ---------------------- > follow-up > ---------------------- > - PDX was recently robbed. Bad news, but good publicity > - Getting local government on board can be good publicity and a source > of hardware. > - $20K monthly (gross?) through the thrift store > - Volunteers are from all stripes (cons, mom's, interested, bored, poor, > wealthy) > > ====================== > incorporation > ====================== > - We have secured Free Geek name locally ? Free Geek Community > Technology Centre Society > - Hoping to incorporate as non-profit this week ? we have 5 incorporee > names required. Straightforward application. David planning to fast > track application to allow us to start moving > - We should define a basic set of bylaws to operate with. Not official, > able to be amended at first AGM > - Vancouver-specific page has been opened on PDX wiki. Can be used to > start brainstorming our bylaws. Linked to from our page > freegeekvancouver.org. Will help to expedite the final bylaw process > - Wiki has play area that does not update true wiki > > ====================== > workgroups > ====================== > - tools: > - mailing lists > - meetings > - irc > - Having to report to a larger forum gives incentive > - Bylaws should be openly discussed to allow access to others outside > the workgroup > - PDX ? brings overarching, controversial issues to council. Must come > to 3 meetings total before you can block an action (expiration of > privilege?) > - Spartacus ? uses loose consensus ? whoever shows up > > ---------------------- > content (website/listserv) > ---------------------- > - currently using Drupal(drupal.org). > MediaWiki(www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki), used by Wikipedia > - will maintain creative change over Drupal > - writing > - defining our web presence > - members: Ifny, Sean Brookes, Scott, David > > ---------------------- > communication (publicity/fund raising/outreach/events) > ---------------------- > - publicity ? speaking with media, advertising for meetings > - fund raising ? event planning, movie night, budget considerations > - outreach ? regular Linux clinic (Linux Clinix) > - getting the message right > - government communication ? grants, cost benefit to city due to our ops > - members: Steve, Jennifer, Scott, Ifny, Rowan > > ---------------------- > locations > ---------------------- > - real estate. scouting locations > - false creek~~~north of Broadway~~~west of Main~~~east of Cambie > - GVRD ? zero waste challenge? > - members: David > > ---------------------- > software > ---------------------- > - good to use what PDX has and to "not reinvent the wheel" > - also need to review what is available and make sure it works > - deciding on distro > - members: Terry, Matt, Scott, Sean Hill, Joe, David, Sean Brookes > > ---------------------- > recycling > ---------------------- > - logistics ? where are the computers gonna go? > - how much can be processed locally? > - waste/recycling education ? why are we doing this? > - members: David, Aaron, Sean Moffat, Joe > > ---------------------- > curriculum (education) > ---------------------- > - teaching volunteers > - understanding community needs > - different classes > - members: Sean Hill, David, Jennifer, Joe, Scott, Ifny > > ---------------------- > governance (consensus/AGM/bylaws) > ---------------------- > - charitable status? > - research on requirements/regulations regarding submissions to government > - members: David, Scott, Joe, Ifny, Sean Hill > > ---------------------- > health/safety > ---------------------- > - how to operate safely ? toxins, mental health, first aid > - members: David, Jennifer, Sim, Sean Moffat > > ---------------------- > futures... > ---------------------- > - museum? > > ====================== > website > ====================== > - pushed on to workgroup > > ====================== > outreach/donations > ====================== > - hardware ? we have space ? contact David - "yes we take it. yes we > take it." > - Steve ? knows people collecting old hardware > - $10 fee for monitors > > ====================== > communications > ====================== > - please make use of all of the communications we have > - using the tools we have spreads our resources further allows us to > save time > - irc - gateway through website > - listserve > - website ? freegeekvancouver.org > > ====================== > action items > ====================== > - post agenda in advance > - AGM ? 3rd week of January > - opening ? June 2007 > - general meeting ? Saturday January 6th, 13:00 ? location TBA > - movie night ? December 12th ~18:00 open, 19:00 start > - Scott will have listserves up within a couple of days > - workgroups will post their meetings shortly ? minutes to listserve > > > _______________________________________________ > http://freegeekvancouver.org > 'Helping the needy get nerdy since the beginning of the 3rd millennium' > https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/freegeek-van > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From matteo at freegeek.org Tue Nov 28 15:27:46 2006 From: matteo at freegeek.org (matteo) Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:27:46 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] 2006-11-27 general meeting minutes In-Reply-To: <456CA4D3.8080405@seanhill.ca> References: <456CA4D3.8080405@seanhill.ca> Message-ID: <20061128232745.GC20206@fgdefault> These are awesome minutes. I have a couple of answers and thoughts: On Tue, Nov 28, 2006 at 01:06:27PM -0800, sean said: > ***************************************************************************** > Free Geek Vancouver ??? General Meeting - Mon, November 27, 2006 > ***************************************************************************** > > Facilitator: David Repa > Regulator: Jennifer > Scribe: Sean Hill > Audio: Ifny > > ====================== > Glossary > ====================== > FG ??? Free Geek > mothership ??? Free Geek Portland > PDX ??? Free Geek Portland > FGV ??? Free Geek Vancouver > distro ??? distribution ??? as in ???what Linux distro are you using???? > wiki ??? a user-editable website > > ====================== > Agenda > ====================== > - agenda items > - introductions > - mothership ??? debriefing by Ifny & David, Q&A > - incorporation > - workgroups (webpage/listserve, publicity/fund raising/outreach, > software/database, spaces) > - website > - outreach/donations > - communications > - action items/next meeting date > > ====================== > introductions > ====================== > - present ??? (online monikers in parentheses) > - Sim, Aaron, Steven, Terry, Sean Moffat, Matt, Sean Brookes, Ifny, > Scott (agent humble), Jennifer (jen virtual), Joe, Sean Hill > (evershade), David Repa (iamturnip), Rowan > > ====================== > mothership > ====================== Dave, Ifny, and Jack - Thank you for takeing the time to get hands on experience from us. Sharing ideas and learning different points of view is what makes this all happen. (we learn alot about our selves as you learn what we do) > ---------------------- > q&a > ---------------------- > q. did you ask about business plan? > a. on the wiki. David can find it and make it available This is a topic that we (pdx) is currentley resituating. I am unsure if we have documented business plan. http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Optimization_and_Priorities_group > q. how many there as paid and inner sanctum? > a. ~15 paid staff. ~30 volunteers at any given time. ~5 core volunteers We also have 3 types of interns. Staff Interns, There are two types: job experience and exploratory. Volunteer Interns, volunteers here on a set schedule. > q. annual budget? > a. not sure. Probably on wiki http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Financial_Overview > ====================== > workgroups > ====================== > - tools: > - mailing lists > - meetings > - irc > - Having to report to a larger forum gives incentive > - Bylaws should be openly discussed to allow access to others outside > the workgroup > - PDX ??? brings overarching, controversial issues to council. Must come > to 3 meetings total before you can block an action (expiration of > privilege?) Yup there is a experation of privilages. In practice, we strive to meet all concerns brought befor the group. http://wiki.freegeek.org/index.php/Eligibility_for_Council > - Spartacus ??? uses loose consensus ??? whoever shows up > > ---------------------- > software > ---------------------- > - good to use what PDX has and to ???not reinvent the wheel??? > - also need to review what is available and make sure it works > - deciding on distro > - members: Terry, Matt, Scott, Sean Hill, Joe, David, Sean Brookes We are into colaberation, and this may become our greatest asset as a large unified Free Geek. Currentley We are using svn to cordinate our projects. (eg. the fgdb beeing rewritten in Ruby, some distro patches.) Well, I have to get back to work. - big donations today :) Matteo From freegeek at seanhill.ca Wed Nov 29 11:33:34 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 11:33:34 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] Meeting minutes - final Message-ID: <456DE08E.3000901@seanhill.ca> howdy all, here's version B only one small revision... :o) ============================== AMENDED - SEE BOTTOM Free Geek Vancouver ? General Meeting - Mon, November 27, 2006 Facilitator: David Repa Regulator: Jennifer Scribe: Sean Hill Audio: Ifny ====================== Glossary ====================== FG ? Free Geek mothership ? Free Geek Portland PDX ? Free Geek Portland FGV ? Free Geek Vancouver distro ? distribution ? as in ?what Linux distro are you using?? wiki ? a user-editable website ====================== Agenda ====================== - agenda items - introductions - mothership ? debriefing by Ifny & David, Q&A - incorporation - workgroups (webpage/listserve, publicity/fund raising/outreach, software/database, spaces) - website - outreach/donations - communications - action items/next meeting date ====================== introductions ====================== - present ? (online monikers in parentheses) - Sim, Aaron, Steven, Terry, Sean Moffat, Matt, Sean Brookes, Ifny, Scott (agent humble), Jennifer (jen virtual), Joe, Sean Hill (evershade), David Repa (iamturnip), Rowan ====================== mothership ====================== ---------------------- David ---------------------- - David's second time to Free Geek Portland. Volunteered to get more info and experience of operations - ?potent community building initiative? - PDX is very excited about FGV ? believe we have the right spirit - Spent a lot of time with and talking to volunteers. Felt they were thankful FG exists. ?sense of community, more than just recycling? - 2 phases to franchising: 1.questionnaire/application ? lets PDX get a sense of who we are. (location, address, policy comprehension) 2.more involved and detailed form ? goes through all aspects (who's signing for accounts, square footage, consensus model) ? allows PDX to decide who they will give franchise status to - Volunteering down at PDX will give a good sense of how it works ---------------------- Ifny ---------------------- - Struck by how sustaining it is for people. There are people who go every day and volunteer - Food is constantly brought in by 'binning' and through donations - Spent a lot of time with hardware. Went through a small class to learn ?pre-build? - Spent time in receiving for humans and for hardware - Attended HR meeting ? how people get along (allegiances, etc) - email domain offered to FGV - A lot of anticipation over FGV. People at PDX say FGV may be able to avoid some of the pitfalls of other FGs - Gift of a signed drive with FG build of Ubuntu Linux ---------------------- q&a ---------------------- q. did you ask about business plan? a. on the wiki. David can find it and make it available q. why does PDX feel we may avoid pitfalls? a. we are very communicative with each other (listserve, irc). We seem to be more self-sufficient and logical eg. Olympia got stuck on idealogical, not practical and ended up too divided eg. Olympia started to rely on PDX for discipline. eg Pennsylvania ended up more for-profit. q. how many PDX folks will come to opening? a. 2 at least... webcast? q. how many there as paid and inner sanctum? a. ~15 paid staff. ~30 volunteers at any given time. ~5 core volunteers q. what is PDX's competitive landscape? other organisations? a. no direct non-profit. Some for-profit has been aggressive over contracts. Contracts poached from public archives. eg. a school that wants 100 computers. Since PDX keeps business openly available online, someone may undercut what PDX is offering q. service contracts? a. no, but tech support is offered as long as the original distro is left on hardware. If you receive a computer through volunteering, you will get pretty much unlimited tech support. Buying one from the store gets one free support visit, then ~$10 q. annual budget? a. not sure. Probably on wiki q. how many machines? throughput? a. sales are down. No exact numbers. many boxes ready to go. Facility is 1500sq ft, moving to 3000. Donations generally come from residential, non-stop on a Saturday. More businesses seemed to show up in week q. $10 a monitor a. yes. A donation form shows mandatory and suggested donation fees for drop-offs q. are volunteers confident and able to explain policies? a. staff member is usually present in each area to make sure things run smooth and follow policy q. how important is it for FGV to be non-profit? a. requirement for franchising, along with consensus-based governing (consensus to be defined) ---------------------- follow-up ---------------------- - PDX was recently robbed. Bad news, but good publicity - Getting local government on board can be good publicity and a source of hardware. - $20K monthly (gross?) through the thrift store - Volunteers are from all stripes (cons, mom's, interested, bored, poor, wealthy) ====================== incorporation ====================== - We have secured Free Geek name locally ? Free Geek Community Technology Centre Society - Hoping to incorporate as non-profit this week ? we have 5 incorporee names required. Straightforward application. David planning to fast track application to allow us to start moving - We should define a basic set of bylaws to operate with. Not official, able to be amended at first AGM - Vancouver-specific page has been opened on PDX wiki. Can be used to start brainstorming our bylaws. Linked to from our page freegeekvancouver.org. Will help to expedite the final bylaw process - Wiki has play area that does not update true wiki ====================== workgroups ====================== - tools: - mailing lists - meetings - irc - Having to report to a larger forum gives incentive - Bylaws should be openly discussed to allow access to others outside the workgroup - PDX ? brings overarching, controversial issues to council. Must come to 3 meetings total before you can block an action (expiration of privilege?) - Spartacus ? uses loose consensus ? whoever shows up ---------------------- content (website/listserv) ---------------------- - currently using Drupal(drupal.org). MediaWiki(www.mediawiki.org/wiki/MediaWiki), used by Wikipedia - will maintain creative change over Drupal - writing - defining our web presence - members: Ifny, Sean Brookes, Scott, David ---------------------- communication (publicity/fund raising/outreach/events) ---------------------- - publicity ? speaking with media, advertising for meetings - fund raising ? event planning, movie night, budget considerations - outreach ? regular Linux clinic (Linux Clinix) - getting the message right - government communication ? grants, cost benefit to city due to our ops - members: Steve, Jennifer, Scott, Ifny, Rowan ---------------------- locations ---------------------- - real estate. scouting locations - false creek~~~north of Broadway~~~west of Main~~~east of Cambie - GVRD ? zero waste challenge? - members: David ---------------------- software ---------------------- - good to use what PDX has and to ?not reinvent the wheel? - also need to review what is available and make sure it works - deciding on distro - members: Terry, Matt, Scott, Sean Hill, Joe, David, Sean Brookes ---------------------- recycling ---------------------- - logistics ? where are the computers gonna go? - how much can be processed locally? - waste/recycling education ? why are we doing this? - members: David, Aaron, Sean Moffat, Joe ---------------------- curriculum (education) ---------------------- - teaching volunteers - understanding community needs - different classes - members: Sean Hill, David, Jennifer, Joe, Scott, Ifny ---------------------- governance (consensus/AGM/bylaws) ---------------------- - charitable status? - research on requirements/regulations regarding submissions to government - members: David, Scott, Joe, Ifny, Sean Hill ---------------------- health/safety ---------------------- - how to operate safely ? toxins, mental health, first aid - members: David, Jennifer, Sim, Sean Moffat ---------------------- futures... ---------------------- - museum? ====================== website ====================== - pushed on to workgroup ====================== outreach/donations ====================== - hardware ? we have space ? contact David - ?yes we take it. yes we take it.? - Steve ? knows people collecting old hardware - $10 fee for monitors ====================== communications ====================== - please make use of all of the communications we have - using the tools we have spreads our resources further allows us to save time - irc - gateway through website - listserve - website ? freegeekvancouver.org ====================== action items ====================== - post agenda in advance - AGM ? 3rd week of January - opening ? June 2007 - general meeting ? Saturday January 6th, 13:00 ? location TBA - movie night ? December 12th ~18:00 open, 19:00 start - Scott will have listserves up within a couple of days - workgroups will post their meetings shortly ? minutes to listserve ********************** amendments ********************** ---------------------- Version B ---------------------- - Added David Repa to communication workgroup From freegeek at seanhill.ca Thu Nov 30 01:16:27 2006 From: freegeek at seanhill.ca (sean) Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 01:16:27 -0800 Subject: [FreeGeek] never say final Message-ID: <456EA16B.7050704@seanhill.ca> uhhh... version C! line: Facility is 1500sq ft, moving to 3000 should read: Facility is 15,000sq ft, moving to 30,000 thanks Sean Moffat! :o)