[Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster

Tue Oct 25 01:36:41 PDT 2016

Also, that was a joke. Sorry everyone. Looking forward to losing to you all
at bowling.

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 1:11 AM, tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
wrote:

> I'm also fine with whatever and realized that via typo i said I do not
> feel the issue is worth fighting to defend a poser. I personally think that
> I am the best and that everyone should fundamentally change their work
> schedules so that they also only work weekends and want to get drunk with
> me on Monday nights. That, however, is just my personal opinion. Your
> decisions are your own.
>
> On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 12:21 AM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>
>> I'm fine with whatever.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>> on behalf of tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* October 25, 2016 12:07 AM
>>
>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>
>> Apparently the poster change wasn't enough and people have still been
>> taking issue because at first glance you still see the jack-o-nazi image. I
>> personally do not care and do not feel like the issue is worth fighting to
>> defend a poser. I'm not ultimately surprised that the small font about no
>> prejudice or no fascists didn't move people who had issue with the whole
>> poster. I don't want to fight with other people outside of or within the
>> collective about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the poster.  I made the
>> impulsive immediate decision to crop the poster so that the backdrop poster
>> of the event includes the bands but cuts out the skin image. If this was
>> the wrong thing to do executively I acknowledge my mistake and am opening
>> this up to the collective to do whatever you all see fit. Here is the
>> original image, attached as a doc.,, feel free to reinstate it as the
>> poster image for the Facebook event. I just want to put this behind us and
>> have it be a nonissue because I am tired. But I don't wan't to step on
>> toes. So there you have it? Whatever y'all decide. Love you,
>> tara
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> i hope this is adequate for everyone <3
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> fyi new poster ya'll
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:24 AM, tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a collective, my hope is that we actually prioritize listening to
>>>>> what concerned people (who happen to be people I respect a lot) have to say
>>>>> about what the poster invoked for them at first glance and give it
>>>>> consideration instead of privately dismissing or ridiculing it, even if we
>>>>> don't necessarily agree because we can't see it through their eyes. I don't
>>>>> think its helpful - as a bunch of white people - to turn to our other
>>>>> friends who aren't white and say "well they aren't white and they think its
>>>>> a nonissue or a ridiculous thing to get upset about". It's invoking one POC
>>>>> narrative to delegitimize another POC narrative, and as an all white
>>>>> collective that shouldn't be our role or our source of justification in
>>>>> defence of anything we promote. No one has sent us an outraged message
>>>>> saying "oh this poster is so fucked up you are all shitheads." It was more
>>>>> of a mellow "hey, what's the deal with this?" I'm getting really burnt out
>>>>> on how blown up all of these issues keep being about "banning nothing !
>>>>> banning everything !"  Are we also contributing to blowing things out of
>>>>> proportion?
>>>>> My suggestions would be that we slow down and evaluate things on a
>>>>> case by case basis, looking to context, looking to who is speaking and why.
>>>>> I see the collective as a whole getting increasingly defensive when these
>>>>> kinds of issues come up and I personally think its counter productive.
>>>>> Everyone in the scene has different attitudes about aesthetics and motifs
>>>>> in punk, which is fine, but obviously anything that can be construed as
>>>>> nazi related is a gonna be a touchy subject for a lot of people. Let's give
>>>>> people the benefit of the doubt and keep in mind that this whole thing is
>>>>> just about a poster. We don't need to sweat the small stuff. The solution
>>>>> can be as simple as including an anti-swastica button on one of the skins,
>>>>> or a new poster. That doesn't mean that we don't totally appreciate the
>>>>> artwork that Laura contributed, or that we have to ban everything that can
>>>>> be mildly construed as sketchy forever, it just means we are also listening
>>>>> to concerns of POC in our community. I want to extend the courtesy of
>>>>> respect to everyone who is involved in this discussion, that's my ultimate
>>>>> goal.
>>>>> Sorry for writing this instead of saving it for the in person
>>>>> discussion but this was a heavy email thread to digest after work. I love
>>>>> and respect each and every one of you and hope I haven't offended anyone,
>>>>> but these are my opinions.
>>>>> xo
>>>>> tara
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Everyone chill. The internet is a bad medium for this convo. Save it
>>>>>> for irl.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 7:48 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Well, the problem is that it's not actually offensive? I'm not
>>>>>>> saying don't change the poster but jeeze. Everyone I've talked to that's
>>>>>>> been into punk for a minute is like "no hahahahhah". I think it's
>>>>>>> kind of funny that we're so afraid of offending people or whatever. but
>>>>>>> sorry for going out of my way to actually talk to people though. Next time
>>>>>>> I won't take up too much space! I should really check my male
>>>>>>> socialization. [image: 😉]
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of Quinn Roseblade <
>>>>>>> quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 7:41 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What does anyone gain by being defensive and maintaining that they
>>>>>>> know what the poster *really* means? This is ridiculous. This person is not
>>>>>>> someone who calls out everything all day long because of potential triggers
>>>>>>> or someone who is unreasonable. The solution to change the poster is so
>>>>>>> simple and does not harm us. Keeping the poster the way it is does harm by
>>>>>>> having people even question whether it's sketchy. Why would we want the
>>>>>>> collective to be associated with potentially being sketchy? Not really
>>>>>>> interested in hearing more of your responses, Eris. Perhaps others can have
>>>>>>> a turn.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:04 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I mean, the sketch is B/W and if the laces were black they wouldn't
>>>>>>> show up.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I also talked to Tay, Tony and Annie about this and all feel like
>>>>>>> it's pretty silly.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I think that's ridiculous personally... It's black and white how
>>>>>>> could it possibly be construed that way? Most of the traditional Nazi
>>>>>>> colors(like laces etc) aren't even really used now. I dunno that's really
>>>>>>> silly.  And the skinhead style doesn't = Nazi. If it had iron cross or
>>>>>>> confederate glad or swastikas on it then yea but it doesn't. It's
>>>>>>> super unreasonable And I mean sounds like they just want to have a problem
>>>>>>> with something in which case they won't listen to anyone." - Annie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> See the attached pic for what the people that lit that guy on fire
>>>>>>> actually look like.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 6:48 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also there's many of bands who come through who used skinhead
>>>>>>> imagery/skin members, are we going to have to filter all skinhead imagery
>>>>>>> from the black lab? I think adding some anti racist/s.h.a.r.p. logos to the
>>>>>>> poster is a good idea which is what a lot of oi bands seem to do but how
>>>>>>> far are we going with anything Skinhead related. I'm cool with changing the
>>>>>>> poster but don't want it going to an anti skinhead banning thing if that
>>>>>>> makes sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I actually already messaged Laura and asked her to hit me up when
>>>>>>> she has a minute to chat. I think we should offer her, the artist who
>>>>>>> originally hand drew that poster, the chance to edit it or make a new one?
>>>>>>> But we should discuss it with a time limit tomorrow as well. Changing a
>>>>>>> poster isn't a big deal. I really appreciate all your input on this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Quinn Roseblade <
>>>>>>> quinn.roseblade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I suggest we address this in a productive way in the meeting
>>>>>>> tomorrow. I have a strong opinion about this but I'm really not interested
>>>>>>> in battling it out. We should just briefly bring up some points and then
>>>>>>> vote if we don't agree. I'm dreading the overpowering talk here and I think
>>>>>>> it can be really damaging. Just want people to consider that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:21 PM, mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think I replied to my message to
>>>>>>> Quick and wasn't being mindful of their feelings. I was only
>>>>>>> thinking from my perception of skins, working on being more mindful . My
>>>>>>> apologies for that.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Incidentally, the person set on fire on the drive was Filipino not
>>>>>>> native?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:37 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Maybe I can just ask Laura to add something clearly anti fascist to
>>>>>>> the poster? Might be easier than making a new poster to keep peace? And
>>>>>>> yeah I agree, I like and respect the people raising these criticisms and
>>>>>>> wouldn't want to trigger anyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm like totally chill and actually laughing about this. I see what
>>>>>>> you're saying. Idk. If you think it's a bad idea to have something that
>>>>>>> vaguely could be construed as Nazi because of our space politics I get it.
>>>>>>> But I honestly think the political causality that leads there is kind of
>>>>>>> wack. ☮
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:24 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Chill out I never said anything about banning anything. I think it's
>>>>>>> an ok poster but I don't think it's ok to completely write off someone who
>>>>>>> isn't white being like, woah wtf is up with this shit?! Everyone in our
>>>>>>> collective currently are white and it's not a bad thing to listen
>>>>>>> sometimes. White ppl miss a lot of shit that can be racist, intentional or
>>>>>>> not... do I think the poster is inherently sketchy? Nah. But I do think
>>>>>>> it's shitty to be dismissive of people who have different lived experiences
>>>>>>> than me. And Gabe isn't some shitty hipster. I think the poster is fine
>>>>>>> overall, but that it probably was an oversight/ not an ideal design choice
>>>>>>> to have em wearing white laces n shit as that's a classic nazi skin
>>>>>>> signifier.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:16 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I don't honestly think this poster is a real problem... But I think
>>>>>>>> we sit on polar opposite sides of this discussion Megan. Are we seriously
>>>>>>>> supposed to ban anything that might hint at something offensive? Did the
>>>>>>>> racist skinheads who set that person on fire wear jack-o-lanterns on their
>>>>>>>> heads? Did they wear white jeans? I like kind of doubt it. Are we supposed
>>>>>>>> to ban anything with vaguely skinhead aesthetics? I don't like skinheads
>>>>>>>> and think they look stupid, but seriously? And IMHO it's hard to
>>>>>>>> distinguish which people are Nazi's generally from the general populace?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:11 PM
>>>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That's Gabe, she's very rad. I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous
>>>>>>>> necessarily, I think because I know Laura, I know she wouldn't have put
>>>>>>>> nazi skins on a black lab poster, but I guess that's my main issue w
>>>>>>>> skinheads irl-- I find it hard sometimes to distinguish which ones are
>>>>>>>> Nazis vs which ones are regs, esp cause a lot of non full on racist skins
>>>>>>>> still wear vaguely nationalist imagery n stuff... I guess white laces are
>>>>>>>> def nazi skin style too so there is that.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:02 PM, "Lindsay Kasting" <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Okay so I kind of can't help but think think this is pretty
>>>>>>>>> ridiculous but apparently someone is quite upset with our Halloween poster.
>>>>>>>>> I took a couple screen shots last night when juls brought it to my
>>>>>>>>> attention but she has since taken the post down with just that third screen
>>>>>>>>> shot that she sent me. Collective thoughts?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>>>>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcol
>>>>>>>>> lective
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
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