[Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster

Tue Oct 25 00:07:18 PDT 2016

Apparently the poster change wasn't enough and people have still been
taking issue because at first glance you still see the jack-o-nazi image. I
personally do not care and do not feel like the issue is worth fighting to
defend a poser. I'm not ultimately surprised that the small font about no
prejudice or no fascists didn't move people who had issue with the whole
poster. I don't want to fight with other people outside of or within the
collective about the legitimacy or illegitimacy of the poster.  I made the
impulsive immediate decision to crop the poster so that the backdrop poster
of the event includes the bands but cuts out the skin image. If this was
the wrong thing to do executively I acknowledge my mistake and am opening
this up to the collective to do whatever you all see fit. Here is the
original image, attached as a doc.,, feel free to reinstate it as the
poster image for the Facebook event. I just want to put this behind us and
have it be a nonissue because I am tired. But I don't wan't to step on
toes. So there you have it? Whatever y'all decide. Love you,
tara

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 5:20 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> i hope this is adequate for everyone <3
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> fyi new poster ya'll
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:24 AM, tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As a collective, my hope is that we actually prioritize listening to
>>> what concerned people (who happen to be people I respect a lot) have to say
>>> about what the poster invoked for them at first glance and give it
>>> consideration instead of privately dismissing or ridiculing it, even if we
>>> don't necessarily agree because we can't see it through their eyes. I don't
>>> think its helpful - as a bunch of white people - to turn to our other
>>> friends who aren't white and say "well they aren't white and they think its
>>> a nonissue or a ridiculous thing to get upset about". It's invoking one POC
>>> narrative to delegitimize another POC narrative, and as an all white
>>> collective that shouldn't be our role or our source of justification in
>>> defence of anything we promote. No one has sent us an outraged message
>>> saying "oh this poster is so fucked up you are all shitheads." It was more
>>> of a mellow "hey, what's the deal with this?" I'm getting really burnt out
>>> on how blown up all of these issues keep being about "banning nothing !
>>> banning everything !"  Are we also contributing to blowing things out of
>>> proportion?
>>> My suggestions would be that we slow down and evaluate things on a case
>>> by case basis, looking to context, looking to who is speaking and why. I
>>> see the collective as a whole getting increasingly defensive when these
>>> kinds of issues come up and I personally think its counter productive.
>>> Everyone in the scene has different attitudes about aesthetics and motifs
>>> in punk, which is fine, but obviously anything that can be construed as
>>> nazi related is a gonna be a touchy subject for a lot of people. Let's give
>>> people the benefit of the doubt and keep in mind that this whole thing is
>>> just about a poster. We don't need to sweat the small stuff. The solution
>>> can be as simple as including an anti-swastica button on one of the skins,
>>> or a new poster. That doesn't mean that we don't totally appreciate the
>>> artwork that Laura contributed, or that we have to ban everything that can
>>> be mildly construed as sketchy forever, it just means we are also listening
>>> to concerns of POC in our community. I want to extend the courtesy of
>>> respect to everyone who is involved in this discussion, that's my ultimate
>>> goal.
>>> Sorry for writing this instead of saving it for the in person discussion
>>> but this was a heavy email thread to digest after work. I love and respect
>>> each and every one of you and hope I haven't offended anyone, but these are
>>> my opinions.
>>> xo
>>> tara
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Everyone chill. The internet is a bad medium for this convo. Save it
>>>> for irl.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 7:48 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, the problem is that it's not actually offensive? I'm not saying
>>>>> don't change the poster but jeeze. Everyone I've talked to that's been into
>>>>> punk for a minute is like "no hahahahhah". I think it's kind of funny
>>>>> that we're so afraid of offending people or whatever. but sorry for going
>>>>> out of my way to actually talk to people though. Next time I won't take up
>>>>> too much space! I should really check my male socialization. [image:
>>>>> 😉]
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>>> on behalf of Quinn Roseblade <quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 7:41 PM
>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>
>>>>> What does anyone gain by being defensive and maintaining that they
>>>>> know what the poster *really* means? This is ridiculous. This person is not
>>>>> someone who calls out everything all day long because of potential triggers
>>>>> or someone who is unreasonable. The solution to change the poster is so
>>>>> simple and does not harm us. Keeping the poster the way it is does harm by
>>>>> having people even question whether it's sketchy. Why would we want the
>>>>> collective to be associated with potentially being sketchy? Not really
>>>>> interested in hearing more of your responses, Eris. Perhaps others can have
>>>>> a turn.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:04 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I mean, the sketch is B/W and if the laces were black they wouldn't
>>>>> show up.
>>>>>
>>>>> I also talked to Tay, Tony and Annie about this and all feel like it's
>>>>> pretty silly.
>>>>>
>>>>> "I think that's ridiculous personally... It's black and white how
>>>>> could it possibly be construed that way? Most of the traditional Nazi
>>>>> colors(like laces etc) aren't even really used now. I dunno that's really
>>>>> silly.  And the skinhead style doesn't = Nazi. If it had iron cross or
>>>>> confederate glad or swastikas on it then yea but it doesn't. It's
>>>>> super unreasonable And I mean sounds like they just want to have a problem
>>>>> with something in which case they won't listen to anyone." - Annie
>>>>>
>>>>> See the attached pic for what the people that lit that guy on fire
>>>>> actually look like.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>>> on behalf of mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 6:48 PM
>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>
>>>>> Also there's many of bands who come through who used skinhead
>>>>> imagery/skin members, are we going to have to filter all skinhead imagery
>>>>> from the black lab? I think adding some anti racist/s.h.a.r.p. logos to the
>>>>> poster is a good idea which is what a lot of oi bands seem to do but how
>>>>> far are we going with anything Skinhead related. I'm cool with changing the
>>>>> poster but don't want it going to an anti skinhead banning thing if that
>>>>> makes sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I actually already messaged Laura and asked her to hit me up when she
>>>>> has a minute to chat. I think we should offer her, the artist who
>>>>> originally hand drew that poster, the chance to edit it or make a new one?
>>>>> But we should discuss it with a time limit tomorrow as well. Changing a
>>>>> poster isn't a big deal. I really appreciate all your input on this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Quinn Roseblade <
>>>>> quinn.roseblade at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest we address this in a productive way in the meeting tomorrow.
>>>>> I have a strong opinion about this but I'm really not interested in
>>>>> battling it out. We should just briefly bring up some points and then vote
>>>>> if we don't agree. I'm dreading the overpowering talk here and I think it
>>>>> can be really damaging. Just want people to consider that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:21 PM, mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I think I replied to my message to
>>>>> Quick and wasn't being mindful of their feelings. I was only thinking
>>>>> from my perception of skins, working on being more mindful . My apologies
>>>>> for that.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally, the person set on fire on the drive was Filipino not
>>>>> native?
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>>> on behalf of Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:37 PM
>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>
>>>>> Maybe I can just ask Laura to add something clearly anti fascist to
>>>>> the poster? Might be easier than making a new poster to keep peace? And
>>>>> yeah I agree, I like and respect the people raising these criticisms and
>>>>> wouldn't want to trigger anyone.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I'm like totally chill and actually laughing about this. I see what
>>>>> you're saying. Idk. If you think it's a bad idea to have something that
>>>>> vaguely could be construed as Nazi because of our space politics I get it.
>>>>> But I honestly think the political causality that leads there is kind of
>>>>> wack. ☮
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>>> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:24 PM
>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Chill out I never said anything about banning anything. I think it's
>>>>> an ok poster but I don't think it's ok to completely write off someone who
>>>>> isn't white being like, woah wtf is up with this shit?! Everyone in our
>>>>> collective currently are white and it's not a bad thing to listen
>>>>> sometimes. White ppl miss a lot of shit that can be racist, intentional or
>>>>> not... do I think the poster is inherently sketchy? Nah. But I do think
>>>>> it's shitty to be dismissive of people who have different lived experiences
>>>>> than me. And Gabe isn't some shitty hipster. I think the poster is fine
>>>>> overall, but that it probably was an oversight/ not an ideal design choice
>>>>> to have em wearing white laces n shit as that's a classic nazi skin
>>>>> signifier.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:16 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't honestly think this poster is a real problem... But I think
>>>>>> we sit on polar opposite sides of this discussion Megan. Are we seriously
>>>>>> supposed to ban anything that might hint at something offensive? Did the
>>>>>> racist skinheads who set that person on fire wear jack-o-lanterns on their
>>>>>> heads? Did they wear white jeans? I like kind of doubt it. Are we supposed
>>>>>> to ban anything with vaguely skinhead aesthetics? I don't like skinheads
>>>>>> and think they look stupid, but seriously? And IMHO it's hard to
>>>>>> distinguish which people are Nazi's generally from the general populace?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at li
>>>>>> sts.resist.ca> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:11 PM
>>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's Gabe, she's very rad. I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous
>>>>>> necessarily, I think because I know Laura, I know she wouldn't have put
>>>>>> nazi skins on a black lab poster, but I guess that's my main issue w
>>>>>> skinheads irl-- I find it hard sometimes to distinguish which ones are
>>>>>> Nazis vs which ones are regs, esp cause a lot of non full on racist skins
>>>>>> still wear vaguely nationalist imagery n stuff... I guess white laces are
>>>>>> def nazi skin style too so there is that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:02 PM, "Lindsay Kasting" <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Okay so I kind of can't help but think think this is pretty
>>>>>>> ridiculous but apparently someone is quite upset with our Halloween poster.
>>>>>>> I took a couple screen shots last night when juls brought it to my
>>>>>>> attention but she has since taken the post down with just that third screen
>>>>>>> shot that she sent me. Collective thoughts?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
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