[Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster

Fri Oct 21 17:20:38 PDT 2016

i hope this is adequate for everyone <3

On Fri, Oct 21, 2016 at 5:05 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> fyi new poster ya'll
>
> On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:24 AM, tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> As a collective, my hope is that we actually prioritize listening to what
>> concerned people (who happen to be people I respect a lot) have to say
>> about what the poster invoked for them at first glance and give it
>> consideration instead of privately dismissing or ridiculing it, even if we
>> don't necessarily agree because we can't see it through their eyes. I don't
>> think its helpful - as a bunch of white people - to turn to our other
>> friends who aren't white and say "well they aren't white and they think its
>> a nonissue or a ridiculous thing to get upset about". It's invoking one POC
>> narrative to delegitimize another POC narrative, and as an all white
>> collective that shouldn't be our role or our source of justification in
>> defence of anything we promote. No one has sent us an outraged message
>> saying "oh this poster is so fucked up you are all shitheads." It was more
>> of a mellow "hey, what's the deal with this?" I'm getting really burnt out
>> on how blown up all of these issues keep being about "banning nothing !
>> banning everything !"  Are we also contributing to blowing things out of
>> proportion?
>> My suggestions would be that we slow down and evaluate things on a case
>> by case basis, looking to context, looking to who is speaking and why. I
>> see the collective as a whole getting increasingly defensive when these
>> kinds of issues come up and I personally think its counter productive.
>> Everyone in the scene has different attitudes about aesthetics and motifs
>> in punk, which is fine, but obviously anything that can be construed as
>> nazi related is a gonna be a touchy subject for a lot of people. Let's give
>> people the benefit of the doubt and keep in mind that this whole thing is
>> just about a poster. We don't need to sweat the small stuff. The solution
>> can be as simple as including an anti-swastica button on one of the skins,
>> or a new poster. That doesn't mean that we don't totally appreciate the
>> artwork that Laura contributed, or that we have to ban everything that can
>> be mildly construed as sketchy forever, it just means we are also listening
>> to concerns of POC in our community. I want to extend the courtesy of
>> respect to everyone who is involved in this discussion, that's my ultimate
>> goal.
>> Sorry for writing this instead of saving it for the in person discussion
>> but this was a heavy email thread to digest after work. I love and respect
>> each and every one of you and hope I haven't offended anyone, but these are
>> my opinions.
>> xo
>> tara
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Everyone chill. The internet is a bad medium for this convo. Save it for
>>> irl.
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016 7:48 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, the problem is that it's not actually offensive? I'm not saying
>>>> don't change the poster but jeeze. Everyone I've talked to that's been into
>>>> punk for a minute is like "no hahahahhah". I think it's kind of funny
>>>> that we're so afraid of offending people or whatever. but sorry for going
>>>> out of my way to actually talk to people though. Next time I won't take up
>>>> too much space! I should really check my male socialization. [image:
>>>> 😉]
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>> on behalf of Quinn Roseblade <quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 7:41 PM
>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>
>>>> What does anyone gain by being defensive and maintaining that they know
>>>> what the poster *really* means? This is ridiculous. This person is not
>>>> someone who calls out everything all day long because of potential triggers
>>>> or someone who is unreasonable. The solution to change the poster is so
>>>> simple and does not harm us. Keeping the poster the way it is does harm by
>>>> having people even question whether it's sketchy. Why would we want the
>>>> collective to be associated with potentially being sketchy? Not really
>>>> interested in hearing more of your responses, Eris. Perhaps others can have
>>>> a turn.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:04 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I mean, the sketch is B/W and if the laces were black they wouldn't
>>>> show up.
>>>>
>>>> I also talked to Tay, Tony and Annie about this and all feel like it's
>>>> pretty silly.
>>>>
>>>> "I think that's ridiculous personally... It's black and white how
>>>> could it possibly be construed that way? Most of the traditional Nazi
>>>> colors(like laces etc) aren't even really used now. I dunno that's really
>>>> silly.  And the skinhead style doesn't = Nazi. If it had iron cross or
>>>> confederate glad or swastikas on it then yea but it doesn't. It's
>>>> super unreasonable And I mean sounds like they just want to have a problem
>>>> with something in which case they won't listen to anyone." - Annie
>>>>
>>>> See the attached pic for what the people that lit that guy on fire
>>>> actually look like.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>> on behalf of mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 6:48 PM
>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>
>>>> Also there's many of bands who come through who used skinhead
>>>> imagery/skin members, are we going to have to filter all skinhead imagery
>>>> from the black lab? I think adding some anti racist/s.h.a.r.p. logos to the
>>>> poster is a good idea which is what a lot of oi bands seem to do but how
>>>> far are we going with anything Skinhead related. I'm cool with changing the
>>>> poster but don't want it going to an anti skinhead banning thing if that
>>>> makes sense.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I actually already messaged Laura and asked her to hit me up when she
>>>> has a minute to chat. I think we should offer her, the artist who
>>>> originally hand drew that poster, the chance to edit it or make a new one?
>>>> But we should discuss it with a time limit tomorrow as well. Changing a
>>>> poster isn't a big deal. I really appreciate all your input on this.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Quinn Roseblade <quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I suggest we address this in a productive way in the meeting tomorrow.
>>>> I have a strong opinion about this but I'm really not interested in
>>>> battling it out. We should just briefly bring up some points and then vote
>>>> if we don't agree. I'm dreading the overpowering talk here and I think it
>>>> can be really damaging. Just want people to consider that.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:21 PM, mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think I replied to my message to
>>>> Quick and wasn't being mindful of their feelings. I was only thinking
>>>> from my perception of skins, working on being more mindful . My apologies
>>>> for that.
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Incidentally, the person set on fire on the drive was Filipino not
>>>> native?
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>> on behalf of Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:37 PM
>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>
>>>> Maybe I can just ask Laura to add something clearly anti fascist to the
>>>> poster? Might be easier than making a new poster to keep peace? And yeah I
>>>> agree, I like and respect the people raising these criticisms and wouldn't
>>>> want to trigger anyone.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'm like totally chill and actually laughing about this. I see what
>>>> you're saying. Idk. If you think it's a bad idea to have something that
>>>> vaguely could be construed as Nazi because of our space politics I get it.
>>>> But I honestly think the political causality that leads there is kind of
>>>> wack. ☮
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:24 PM
>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Chill out I never said anything about banning anything. I think it's an
>>>> ok poster but I don't think it's ok to completely write off someone who
>>>> isn't white being like, woah wtf is up with this shit?! Everyone in our
>>>> collective currently are white and it's not a bad thing to listen
>>>> sometimes. White ppl miss a lot of shit that can be racist, intentional or
>>>> not... do I think the poster is inherently sketchy? Nah. But I do think
>>>> it's shitty to be dismissive of people who have different lived experiences
>>>> than me. And Gabe isn't some shitty hipster. I think the poster is fine
>>>> overall, but that it probably was an oversight/ not an ideal design choice
>>>> to have em wearing white laces n shit as that's a classic nazi skin
>>>> signifier.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:16 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don't honestly think this poster is a real problem... But I think we
>>>>> sit on polar opposite sides of this discussion Megan. Are we seriously
>>>>> supposed to ban anything that might hint at something offensive? Did the
>>>>> racist skinheads who set that person on fire wear jack-o-lanterns on their
>>>>> heads? Did they wear white jeans? I like kind of doubt it. Are we supposed
>>>>> to ban anything with vaguely skinhead aesthetics? I don't like skinheads
>>>>> and think they look stupid, but seriously? And IMHO it's hard to
>>>>> distinguish which people are Nazi's generally from the general populace?
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>>> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:11 PM
>>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's Gabe, she's very rad. I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous
>>>>> necessarily, I think because I know Laura, I know she wouldn't have put
>>>>> nazi skins on a black lab poster, but I guess that's my main issue w
>>>>> skinheads irl-- I find it hard sometimes to distinguish which ones are
>>>>> Nazis vs which ones are regs, esp cause a lot of non full on racist skins
>>>>> still wear vaguely nationalist imagery n stuff... I guess white laces are
>>>>> def nazi skin style too so there is that.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:02 PM, "Lindsay Kasting" <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Okay so I kind of can't help but think think this is pretty
>>>>>> ridiculous but apparently someone is quite upset with our Halloween poster.
>>>>>> I took a couple screen shots last night when juls brought it to my
>>>>>> attention but she has since taken the post down with just that third screen
>>>>>> shot that she sent me. Collective thoughts?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>> <hi-bc-120123-miller-de-chazal.jpg>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Blacklabcollective mailing list
>> Blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>> https://lists.resist.ca/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/blacklabcollective
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.resist.ca/pipermail/blacklabcollective/attachments/20161021/b2e3cf5f/attachment-0001.html>
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: OutlookEmoji-😉.png
Type: image/png
Size: 390 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.resist.ca/pipermail/blacklabcollective/attachments/20161021/b2e3cf5f/attachment-0001.png>