[Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster

Fri Oct 21 17:05:13 PDT 2016

fyi new poster ya'll

On Wed, Oct 19, 2016 at 4:24 AM, tara myketiak <taramyketiak at gmail.com>
wrote:

> As a collective, my hope is that we actually prioritize listening to what
> concerned people (who happen to be people I respect a lot) have to say
> about what the poster invoked for them at first glance and give it
> consideration instead of privately dismissing or ridiculing it, even if we
> don't necessarily agree because we can't see it through their eyes. I don't
> think its helpful - as a bunch of white people - to turn to our other
> friends who aren't white and say "well they aren't white and they think its
> a nonissue or a ridiculous thing to get upset about". It's invoking one POC
> narrative to delegitimize another POC narrative, and as an all white
> collective that shouldn't be our role or our source of justification in
> defence of anything we promote. No one has sent us an outraged message
> saying "oh this poster is so fucked up you are all shitheads." It was more
> of a mellow "hey, what's the deal with this?" I'm getting really burnt out
> on how blown up all of these issues keep being about "banning nothing !
> banning everything !"  Are we also contributing to blowing things out of
> proportion?
> My suggestions would be that we slow down and evaluate things on a case by
> case basis, looking to context, looking to who is speaking and why. I see
> the collective as a whole getting increasingly defensive when these kinds
> of issues come up and I personally think its counter productive. Everyone
> in the scene has different attitudes about aesthetics and motifs in punk,
> which is fine, but obviously anything that can be construed as nazi related
> is a gonna be a touchy subject for a lot of people. Let's give people the
> benefit of the doubt and keep in mind that this whole thing is just about a
> poster. We don't need to sweat the small stuff. The solution can be as
> simple as including an anti-swastica button on one of the skins, or a new
> poster. That doesn't mean that we don't totally appreciate the artwork that
> Laura contributed, or that we have to ban everything that can be mildly
> construed as sketchy forever, it just means we are also listening to
> concerns of POC in our community. I want to extend the courtesy of respect
> to everyone who is involved in this discussion, that's my ultimate goal.
> Sorry for writing this instead of saving it for the in person discussion
> but this was a heavy email thread to digest after work. I love and respect
> each and every one of you and hope I haven't offended anyone, but these are
> my opinions.
> xo
> tara
>
> On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 7:55 PM, Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Everyone chill. The internet is a bad medium for this convo. Save it for
>> irl.
>>
>> On Oct 18, 2016 7:48 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the problem is that it's not actually offensive? I'm not saying
>>> don't change the poster but jeeze. Everyone I've talked to that's been into
>>> punk for a minute is like "no hahahahhah". I think it's kind of funny
>>> that we're so afraid of offending people or whatever. but sorry for going
>>> out of my way to actually talk to people though. Next time I won't take up
>>> too much space! I should really check my male socialization. [image: 😉]
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>> on behalf of Quinn Roseblade <quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 7:41 PM
>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>
>>> What does anyone gain by being defensive and maintaining that they know
>>> what the poster *really* means? This is ridiculous. This person is not
>>> someone who calls out everything all day long because of potential triggers
>>> or someone who is unreasonable. The solution to change the poster is so
>>> simple and does not harm us. Keeping the poster the way it is does harm by
>>> having people even question whether it's sketchy. Why would we want the
>>> collective to be associated with potentially being sketchy? Not really
>>> interested in hearing more of your responses, Eris. Perhaps others can have
>>> a turn.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 7:04 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> I mean, the sketch is B/W and if the laces were black they wouldn't show
>>> up.
>>>
>>> I also talked to Tay, Tony and Annie about this and all feel like it's
>>> pretty silly.
>>>
>>> "I think that's ridiculous personally... It's black and white how could
>>> it possibly be construed that way? Most of the traditional Nazi colors(like
>>> laces etc) aren't even really used now. I dunno that's really silly.  And
>>> the skinhead style doesn't = Nazi. If it had iron cross or confederate glad
>>> or swastikas on it then yea but it doesn't. It's super unreasonable And
>>> I mean sounds like they just want to have a problem with something in which
>>> case they won't listen to anyone." - Annie
>>>
>>> See the attached pic for what the people that lit that guy on fire
>>> actually look like.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>> on behalf of mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 6:48 PM
>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>
>>> Also there's many of bands who come through who used skinhead
>>> imagery/skin members, are we going to have to filter all skinhead imagery
>>> from the black lab? I think adding some anti racist/s.h.a.r.p. logos to the
>>> poster is a good idea which is what a lot of oi bands seem to do but how
>>> far are we going with anything Skinhead related. I'm cool with changing the
>>> poster but don't want it going to an anti skinhead banning thing if that
>>> makes sense.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:51 PM, Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I actually already messaged Laura and asked her to hit me up when she
>>> has a minute to chat. I think we should offer her, the artist who
>>> originally hand drew that poster, the chance to edit it or make a new one?
>>> But we should discuss it with a time limit tomorrow as well. Changing a
>>> poster isn't a big deal. I really appreciate all your input on this.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Quinn Roseblade <quinn.roseblade at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I suggest we address this in a productive way in the meeting tomorrow. I
>>> have a strong opinion about this but I'm really not interested in battling
>>> it out. We should just briefly bring up some points and then vote if we
>>> don't agree. I'm dreading the overpowering talk here and I think it can be
>>> really damaging. Just want people to consider that.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 2:21 PM, mick mccann <nomoreroads at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I replied to my message to
>>> Quick and wasn't being mindful of their feelings. I was only thinking
>>> from my perception of skins, working on being more mindful . My apologies
>>> for that.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> Incidentally, the person set on fire on the drive was Filipino not
>>> native?
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>> on behalf of Lindsay Kasting <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:37 PM
>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>
>>> Maybe I can just ask Laura to add something clearly anti fascist to the
>>> poster? Might be easier than making a new poster to keep peace? And yeah I
>>> agree, I like and respect the people raising these criticisms and wouldn't
>>> want to trigger anyone.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016, at 12:29 PM, Eris Nyx <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm like totally chill and actually laughing about this. I see what
>>> you're saying. Idk. If you think it's a bad idea to have something that
>>> vaguely could be construed as Nazi because of our space politics I get it.
>>> But I honestly think the political causality that leads there is kind of
>>> wack. ☮
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:24 PM
>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>
>>>
>>> Chill out I never said anything about banning anything. I think it's an
>>> ok poster but I don't think it's ok to completely write off someone who
>>> isn't white being like, woah wtf is up with this shit?! Everyone in our
>>> collective currently are white and it's not a bad thing to listen
>>> sometimes. White ppl miss a lot of shit that can be racist, intentional or
>>> not... do I think the poster is inherently sketchy? Nah. But I do think
>>> it's shitty to be dismissive of people who have different lived experiences
>>> than me. And Gabe isn't some shitty hipster. I think the poster is fine
>>> overall, but that it probably was an oversight/ not an ideal design choice
>>> to have em wearing white laces n shit as that's a classic nazi skin
>>> signifier.
>>>
>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:16 PM, "Eris Nyx" <erisnyx at hotmail.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don't honestly think this poster is a real problem... But I think we
>>>> sit on polar opposite sides of this discussion Megan. Are we seriously
>>>> supposed to ban anything that might hint at something offensive? Did the
>>>> racist skinheads who set that person on fire wear jack-o-lanterns on their
>>>> heads? Did they wear white jeans? I like kind of doubt it. Are we supposed
>>>> to ban anything with vaguely skinhead aesthetics? I don't like skinheads
>>>> and think they look stupid, but seriously? And IMHO it's hard to
>>>> distinguish which people are Nazi's generally from the general populace?
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Blacklabcollective <blacklabcollective-bounces at lists.resist.ca>
>>>> on behalf of Megan Speers <speers.megan at gmail.com>
>>>> *Sent:* October 18, 2016 12:11 PM
>>>> *To:* blacklabcollective at lists.resist.ca
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Blacklabcollective] Halloween poster
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That's Gabe, she's very rad. I dunno, I don't think it's ridiculous
>>>> necessarily, I think because I know Laura, I know she wouldn't have put
>>>> nazi skins on a black lab poster, but I guess that's my main issue w
>>>> skinheads irl-- I find it hard sometimes to distinguish which ones are
>>>> Nazis vs which ones are regs, esp cause a lot of non full on racist skins
>>>> still wear vaguely nationalist imagery n stuff... I guess white laces are
>>>> def nazi skin style too so there is that.
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 18, 2016 12:02 PM, "Lindsay Kasting" <l.kasting86 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Okay so I kind of can't help but think think this is pretty ridiculous
>>>>> but apparently someone is quite upset with our Halloween poster. I took a
>>>>> couple screen shots last night when juls brought it to my attention but she
>>>>> has since taken the post down with just that third screen shot that she
>>>>> sent me. Collective thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
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